HomeHome  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  UsergroupsUsergroups  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  

Share | 
 

 Shared Knighthood

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
AuthorMessage
Tyr

avatar

Posts : 712
Join date : 2008-08-18
Age : 27
Location : The Night

PostSubject: Re: Shared Knighthood   Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:41 am

you could name the the leadership knights like wolf knights, and the combat one maybe like bear knights, one is more for the good of the group the other is a force to be reconed w/, just throwin that out there,
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Eldrin THE BLACK

avatar

Posts : 276
Join date : 2008-11-12
Location : DreadHold

PostSubject: Re: Shared Knighthood   Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:56 am

I was think Knights of the Crown and Knights of the Shield. Any other ideas?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Orrin None-son

avatar

Posts : 588
Join date : 2008-09-28
Age : 36
Location : Ravenwood

PostSubject: Re: Shared Knighthood   Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:15 pm

Just one question. Why crown? Neither ravenwood or Haven have a monarch. Kobald king aside.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Eldrin THE BLACK

avatar

Posts : 276
Join date : 2008-11-12
Location : DreadHold

PostSubject: Re: Shared Knighthood   Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:28 pm

No, we have no Kings, but we do have leaders. The Crown is a symbol of leadership. Though, if it truly is an offensive gesture, we could name it something different. Shield Knights may not be the best idea either. Just putting things out there. I might write a vague charter sometime in the near future so people can see what I have in mind and add ideas to modify it.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Logar

avatar

Posts : 272
Join date : 2008-08-18
Age : 27
Location : The Northern Territories

PostSubject: Re: Shared Knighthood   Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:04 pm

this sounds awesome so um...... BUMP!!!!!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Vala
Forum Administrator
avatar

Posts : 291
Join date : 2008-08-15
Age : 27
Location : Blue Springs Province

PostSubject: Re: Shared Knighthood   Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:29 pm

Thanks Ephraim this needed a bump.

I really really do like this idea, a lot and if everyone is game for it I say we give it a try and see what happens. ^---^

_________________
"Common sense is not so common" - Voltaire

"In order to act, you must be somewhat insane. A reasonably sensible man is satisfied with thinking."
- Georges Clemenceau
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://gatesofhaven.forumotion.net
Logar

avatar

Posts : 272
Join date : 2008-08-18
Age : 27
Location : The Northern Territories

PostSubject: Re: Shared Knighthood   Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:10 am

lol ive just now been able to get on so haha no problem
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Eldrin THE BLACK

avatar

Posts : 276
Join date : 2008-11-12
Location : DreadHold

PostSubject: Re: Shared Knighthood   Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:58 am

Ok, I am going to point out some logical problems(most people will see thme as problems, I see them as opportunities to better oneself) with this idea. I do think it is a cool idea(my idea after all, of course I think its cool!) if we could get it to work, but here some things I think about this.

****Please don't take any of this as negative, just some thoughts****

IMO, if we are talking about marshal knighthood(Knight by right of arms) we must considered what a "Knight" is.

A Knight is probably a black belt of some type of weapon/combo. Red, sword/board/, spear, or whatever else. How many people actually reach that level of skill? Honestly the vast majority do not(feel free to disagree, just explain how I am wrong)

Now, can most people become "black belts"(a knight by right of arms)? I absolutely think so. Most people can can become Knights with the proper time and training. But this takes more dedication to Dagorhir than most people want to give.

How then, can one become a "Black Belt"(Knight by right of arms)?
By training 1-2 times a week properly for 1-2 hours outside of normal battle days, an average person should be able to gain Knighthood by right of arms in 3-5 years. And yes, there are proper training styles for each weapon.

3-5 years!!!!
Yes there is a problem with this. Most people(vast majority) want quick results in Dagorhir. Generally, most people want to be a Knight in 6 months to a year. This is very unlikely(unless you have a prodigy and unfortunately, a lot of people think they are and are thus deserving of Knighthood) and Knighthood would probably take 3-5 years.

Testing
How would you test peoples abilities? Certainly you can have them fight lots of opponents of varying skill levels, but I don't think this is the best way to test someone. Heck, I can go pass tests for Knighthood in several realms fairly easily, of this, I have no doubt. But tell me, would those other realms accept me as a Knight? Of course not, I've not proven any sort of allegiance. So then, there is more intrinsic to Knighthood than simply fighting ability, but what are they?

Also, in marshal arts, the teacher decides when someone is ready to become a black belt by watching closely their physical *and* mental development. Being a black belt is also about maturity, right?

Qualities
The the order of Knights would need some requisite qualities for Knighthood and a way of testing them. So, the order would need to pick the qualities they desired and also a way of testing them.

I would say that quests and trials would be the best.

Yes, I said quests.
So, you would need quests corresponding to the qualities you wanted. Get this, or visit here, or acquire that. Whatever would be good. Since the Knightly order would belong to more than one realm the quests would need to be static enough to be recognized in more than one realm, but flexible enough to accommodate different groups of people in different areas. These couldn't be to flexible or the arranged Knighthood would not be respected by both parties.

Respect

Yes, essentially, knighthood is about notoriety and respect. If you question this and if you want to be called a Knight someday, think deep down about your motivations and don't let your vanity interfere with you soul searching.
So the standards would have to be such that every party involved respected what each Knight went through to become one. Not for the sake of vanity, but for the sake of the order itself would we need to have high standards and mutual respect. Otherwise, the order would dissolve quickly.

Knight's Quorum

The Order would have to have yearly meet of all members, both Knight Squire and page, for training, business, ranking, and camaraderie. It would probably be a weekend camping/ battle/ training day. Instructors would need to submit class proposals and lengths, etc. This would be necessary for the Order to have any lasting qualities.

Lasting qualities

Necessary, yes, unless you want to be a Knight in your head and your head alone. If so, go pretend and have fun! But if you want this Knighthood to be something recognized by even outsiders, then all members must work to make it a serious, organized entity. Besides, who wants t waste a bunch of time and energy on something that will fall apart in a few months?

Quests

Ok, lets use the time frame of 3-5 years and throw some other qualities/quests in there as milestones. Here are some examples of what we might do.

Campaigner-(Belt flag with a tent)The Knight is a grizzled veteran of war and is an old war dog. The Knight has survived and fought in enough wars and battles to be considered a legend to some.
To get the Campaigner merit badge(jk) one must-Attend 6 inter-realm events and, apart from those, 2 Ragnaroks.

Soldier-(Belt flag with a sugarloaf helm) A knight has learned to repair all their own gear.
To get the soldier merit brownie patch(haha), one must demonstrate proficiency in creating and repairing any gear they use and several other types of arms and armor.

Diplomat-(Belt flag with an olive branch)The Knight has made their self known to several realms.
To get the diplomat patch, one must visit 3 different realms on 3 different occasions on their regularly scheduled battle days and hold(organize and attend) one weapons building session jointly with another realm.

Progenitus-(Belt flag with a tree)The Knight demonstrates proper piety to the order and the person Knighting them. They will acquire a sacred relic and keep it safe as part of their Knightly oath. It will help to preserve the history of the order. These relics may be passed down to their own squires if they choose.
To acquire the Progenitus badge one will gain a respectable relic from an established member of the order or a notable person among the ranks. Relics might include a piece of armor, a used weapon, piece of garb, etc. etc.

Perseverance-(Belt flag with a badger)The Knight continues when others would fail and does not flinch at the opportunity.
To gain the perseverance award one must fight an iron man battle for one hour to the best of their ability. They don't have to win, but they cannot stop fighting at any time and they cannot fight without heart. The person Knighting them decides if the iron man was a success.

Mantle of arms-(Belt Flag with two crossed spears and a sword between)The Knight has a basic armory to equip their squires with.
To gain the mantle of arms badge, one must have in their possession of their own make 5 blue swords, 5 arrows, 1 bow, 4 javelins, 2 reds, 1 spear, 2 daggers and 3 shields of three different sizes)

Mantle of armor-(Belt flag with a suit of armor) The Knight goes to battle fully protected from the wild cuts of his foe.
To gain the mantle of armor one must have a full set of armor of any type or of mixed types covering 90% of all legal strike zones.

Ivory and Nib-(Belt flag with a quill pen) The Knight has furthered the cause of the marshal art he/she participates in in more ways then instructing.
To gain the Ivory and Nib, one must either write a helpful instructional paper about fighting, make a fighting instruction video not less than ten minutes, or make a video that clearly demonstrates how to build one type of dagorhir weapon in a particular style.

Oath of Blood-(Belt flag with bound hands)-Done at the Knighting ceremony. Its a secret. Wink

So this is basically what a Knight should be included to do. I think a Knight should be pretty serious thing. Maybe a bit more than anyone thought, maybe not. But it is defiantly not some fly-by-night peanut gallery of newbs who think they are grand. A person who has done everything I have written in this post will probably be a well rounded dagorhir person. They may not be the BAMF of BAMFs, but it isn't about that, is it. It is about perseverance, dedication, and accomplishment.


And yes, I do think a Knight should be of a certain marshal ability. If a person followed this course to Knighthood, I would Knight them myself. They would be a Knight by right of Arms and Honor. There is no higher goal than this and I fully believe 99% of people have the ability(maybe not the guts) to accomplish this.

So, any serious replies or critiques to this?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Tyr

avatar

Posts : 712
Join date : 2008-08-18
Age : 27
Location : The Night

PostSubject: Re: Shared Knighthood   Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:34 am

god Eldrin you are the lord of LONG posts Razz
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Eldrin THE BLACK

avatar

Posts : 276
Join date : 2008-11-12
Location : DreadHold

PostSubject: Re: Shared Knighthood   Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:40 pm

scratch

That was the only way I could properly explain some of the things that might go into a worthy Knighthood.

A shared order would need to be voted in as official for both realms. Then the order could be based from these to realms and given to anyone else from other realms that wanted to go through the training/quests/etc.

And, Tyr, luckily you don't have to read my post! God bless freedom. Smile
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Iohn deMar
Realm Administrator
avatar

Posts : 641
Join date : 2008-08-15
Age : 27
Location : Rolla

PostSubject: Re: Shared Knighthood   Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:17 pm

Eldrin, thank you for taking the time and effort to write this up. I know you have thought seriously about this, and reading through your post was quite inspirational. I feel that if we can make this work, it would potentially change not only our own realms and the realms around us, but the entirety of Dagorhir.

The idea of having quests as you listed sounds like an excellent idea. It would completely revolutionize the way we rank. There are of course some more in-depth questions I have over some of the individual quests, but the majority of what you have discussed I agree with completely.

Too much of Dagorhir is unorganized and chaotic, not just on the field but off it as well. This could be just one more step to improving this sport for all of us.

_________________
Guardian
Realm Administrator
haven@dagorhir.com

"Or I will Moderator all your butts laugh do a little dance and eat a scone"
-Turrin barTurrin
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Kairi Cypmann

avatar

Posts : 893
Join date : 2008-08-19
Location : Rolla, MO

PostSubject: Re: Shared Knighthood   Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:45 pm

I personally love this idea. Many times, I wonder what gives our citizens incentive to even want to rank. Our tests aren't easy, but they aren't extremely difficult, either, and you can obtain knighthood within a year and a half or so.
The idea of Quests gives people something to always be working towards, and always giving them ways to better themselves-- as you said, not just as fighters, but as well-rounded, dedicated members of Dagorhir.

I'd love to see this become a reality, and I'd be willing to help do whatever is necessary to see that it could be done.

Also: Thanks for taking the time to write all that out. I'm sure that took a lot of thought, time, and effort to put together. (:

_________________
I am because I need to be.


Kairi the Claymore
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Orrin None-son

avatar

Posts : 588
Join date : 2008-09-28
Age : 36
Location : Ravenwood

PostSubject: Re: Shared Knighthood   Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:48 pm

I like the ideas so far. I think that at Gates we should get together at somepoint and talk about this and what-ever else comes up. Also, I want to keep our eyes open for more potential dual realm improvments and stuff.

And, I want to get all the members (honorary and full) together to discuss some things. Eldrin, Iohn, and Tiberus are also encouraged to come listen and talk things out, since there are members in both Alterra and Haven, and I value Eldrins input tons.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Eldrin THE BLACK

avatar

Posts : 276
Join date : 2008-11-12
Location : DreadHold

PostSubject: Re: Shared Knighthood   Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:58 pm

Yes, and any other ideas are encouraged.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Angus
Troll
avatar

Posts : 423
Join date : 2008-10-14
Age : 29
Location : Rolla, MO

PostSubject: Re: Shared Knighthood   Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:58 am

How about this: Haven's system involves a series of trials that must be passed in succession, and can only be attempted once a month. If Ravenwood had a similar system, we could waive the "one trial per month" requirement, and allow members of the other realm to pass off several trials in one weekend at an inter-realm event. the restriction would be that no-one could attain a higher rank in their brother realm than their rank in their current realm. for example, If I were a Man-at-Arms in Haven, I could become an Honorary Man-at-Arms in Ravenwood at Gates of Summer, (I wouldn't have to wait a month between each trial, I would just do them all in order on either Saturday or Sunday) but I couldn't achieve a higher rank with Ravenwood, until I had achieved that rank with Haven.
It's one Idea, let me know what you think?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Eldrin THE BLACK

avatar

Posts : 276
Join date : 2008-11-12
Location : DreadHold

PostSubject: Re: Shared Knighthood   Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:10 am

I was think that the Knightly Order would be a self governed, independent entity.

I can tell you right now that in Ravenwood all citizens are equal. Knighthood would only be a recognized honor of both realms. The Order itself would have little to do with either realm though. It Haven has a ranking system intrinsic to your constitution(Ravenwood has no official Knighthood) than it would be difficult to change that for all your members for the sake of another realm.

I was thinking that each realm recognized the Knights, but the dispensation for Knighthood didn't come from any realm, but an independent, honorable body of worthy nobles. This way politics and relationships do not influence Knighthood very heavily, but true qualities influence a persons right to be Knighted. As a joint effort, we won't feel pressured to Knight anyone, In fact, it would be good to require a ranking noble(i.e. Knight) from each realm to confer Knighthood. That way, an objective party can weigh the evidence brought in defense of an applicants Knighthood.

In fact, to become a Knight, I think the order should hold a trial so the applicant must defend themselves in word, possession, and deed to gain Knighthood. Then a quorum would decide Knighthood.

In the end, the order would have only the power of giving. No political power, no special rights. Only honorable conduct. For, why be dishonorable if you gain nothing either way? Best to at least make friends and allies.

Just a thought.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Angus
Troll
avatar

Posts : 423
Join date : 2008-10-14
Age : 29
Location : Rolla, MO

PostSubject: Re: Shared Knighthood   Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:45 am

This is an excellent idea. In fact, it's so good, you may want to double-check to see if something like this already exists or not.
If it hasn't already been done, i would support this 100%. The order sounds like it would be Almost like Eagle Scouts, where it would be widely recognized, and actually mean something. You would probably draft up some sort of constitution or charter for the order (like what you have written, but slightly more in-depth), and then have it signed and recognized by the officers of each participating realm. It would make sense for the order to be self-governing, so that any realm may sign and recognize the order, but the only people with the power to change the rules would be the knights themselves.
tl;dr: Capital Idea, Old Chap
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Orrin None-son

avatar

Posts : 588
Join date : 2008-09-28
Age : 36
Location : Ravenwood

PostSubject: Re: Shared Knighthood   Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:11 am

I don't think the idea of ravenwood members gaining rank in Haven would be good for building comradery. Picture this, (just using names I know) Angus joins Gates and decides to start ranking. He spends two months getting together the requireed garb, gear adn skills required. Then begins the proccess. after a month he gains one rank. Then waiting the required month he gains another. Gates of summer arrives one week later. Eldrin of Ravenwood asks to take the tests, and ranks all three permissablein one event. How do you think our little Angus would feel about all his hard earned ranking now? After months of hard work, a non-member outranks him after only 3 days.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Eldrin THE BLACK

avatar

Posts : 276
Join date : 2008-11-12
Location : DreadHold

PostSubject: Re: Shared Knighthood   Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:11 pm

I was saying that the order shouldn't be an intrinsic "part" of either realm, but independent. So Orrin, what you said is a definite consideration to to why I think that, not the only one.

And so everyone knows(I'm not sure how this will effect the proceedings) I am a bard and a soldier and I am happy to be simply both. I have no interest in being a Knight. Sorry if that is what it sounded like.

But, in order to start the Order out, I'd be willing to Knight the orders first few members if they met the requirements, either independently, or with some help from me. This would give your order its first Knight and its Lineage. All other Knights would descend from those first few. They would decide how to run the group, what to change about the Charter, and any other considerations.

I would still be willing to come train at training camps and give ideas to the Knights and I would be willing to help some in getting it rolling. But I doubt if you have a few impassioned people to join up that you will need much guidance from me. But if the group promotes nobility(in the real sense) I'll always be there to help.

And it isn't that I don't want to be a member of the group, I am just not interested in becoming a Knight. There isn't any dramatic reason or anything, I just don't! Smile

I am happy with just who I am. But don't let that dissuade anyone from wanting to do it, I think it is a fantastic idea and lots of people should get involved.

This thread is for ideas. I'd be willing to write up a charter, but first I want to flesh out any ideas some of you might have and try to incorporate them. So keep going!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Tyr

avatar

Posts : 712
Join date : 2008-08-18
Age : 27
Location : The Night

PostSubject: Re: Shared Knighthood   Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:03 pm

may i make the suggestion of if a person is willing maybe there should be different kind of knights, i know it's a hard truth but some people may just never get to be good enough to pass all the arms trials, but maybe you could set up a set of challenges for those who aren't esceptionally well at fighting but more at knowledge or with diplomacy... just the travlers two sense..
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Eldrin THE BLACK

avatar

Posts : 276
Join date : 2008-11-12
Location : DreadHold

PostSubject: Re: Shared Knighthood   Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:06 pm

I believe very few people cannot get very good at any type of combat with training. There are a few special cases, but barring certain conditions, anyone can get in good physical condition and sharpen their co-ordination for any type of martial art. Anyone can build muscle.

But, like any quest you would assign someone, becoming the best warrior you can personally be is a matter of perseverance, will, and the want to better oneself. Like I said, almost anyone can become better with the proper training and dedication.

So, why would someone want to be Knight if they do not want to enhance their martial prowess. I defiantly wouldn't be for calling someone a Knight that didn't meet the full circle of requirements, both mental, physical, and spiritual. The order could have other types of tests or use some of the same Knightly tests and the person not wanting to sharpen their warrior skills could be called soemthing else with different privileges

Like;

Lord/Lady-Completed certain pre-requisite
Count/Countess-" " "
Viscount/Viscountess-" " "
Duke/Dutchess-" " "


But this would be going away from what I considered nobility and going into the spectrum of Royalty. But, if you have constructive ideas that make these titles a useful addition to the Order, feel free to give me a detailed summary of pros and cons and requirements for each rank, etc. If no one does, I probably won't bother with it. If no one cares enough about it, why bother?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Kairi Cypmann

avatar

Posts : 893
Join date : 2008-08-19
Location : Rolla, MO

PostSubject: Re: Shared Knighthood   Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:30 pm

First off: I love the idea of an inter-realm, shared Knighthood. That does NOT mean that Haven will not have it's own Knights as well. We're not getting rid of our old system, but adopting another one alongside it. In effect, if you were to be good enough, you could be a Knight of Haven and a Knight of the Order (or whatever it ends up being called). Our current ranking structure will not be changing because there isn't a reason to change it.
Orrin's point was entirely accurate and I agree with him completely. We won't be waiving the waiting periods, because the waiting periods are necessary to earning the rank.

Secondly, I agree that someone should have an opportunity to earn non-marshal rank. However, I think that earning something of that sort would be a realm-decided title, not an inter-realm one. Or perhaps in the future, if the knighting system between realms works out good enough, that could be talked about more seriously. I just don't think it's wise to complicate things unnecessarily like that at the moment.
Being a good leader without the combat skill is kind of why Haven has council people. If you're a good leader, your peers will elect you because they feel you're well-suited to the task. That in and of itself is, to me, a title of honor that denotes non-combatant prowess.

_________________
I am because I need to be.


Kairi the Claymore
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Iohn deMar
Realm Administrator
avatar

Posts : 641
Join date : 2008-08-15
Age : 27
Location : Rolla

PostSubject: Re: Shared Knighthood   Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:40 pm

Something I found while digging though some old files was a "knight's oath" from (Nisbet, 'System of Heraldry', Vol. II, Part IV, p. 156). It reads as follows:

Quote :
1. I shall fortify and defend the true Christian Religion, and Christ's holy evangel, now presently preached within this realm to the utmost of my power.
2. I shall be loyal and true to my sovereign Lord the King's Majesty, to all orders of chivalry, and to the notable Office of Arms.
3. I shall fortify and defend justice at my power, and that without favour or fead.
4. I shall never flee from my sovereign Lord the King's Majesty, nor from his highness's lieutenants in time of mellay or battle.
5. I shall defend my native realm from all alieners and strangers.
6. I shall defend the just action and quarrel of all ladies of honour, of all true and friendless widows, of orphans, and of maidens of good fame.
7. I shall do diligence wheresoever I hear there are any murderers, traitors, and masterful reavers, that oppress the King's lieges, and poor people, to bring them to the law at my power.
8. I shall maintain and uphold the noble estate of chivalry, with horse, harness, and other knightly abuliments, and shall help and succour them of the same order at my power, if they have need.
9. I shall enquire and seek to have the knowledge and understanding of all these articles and points contained in the book of chivalry

All these I promise to observe, keep, and fulfil, I oblesse me. So help me, my God, by my own hand. So help me God.

I think that some of the values mentioned here could be reused for our own purposes.

_________________
Guardian
Realm Administrator
haven@dagorhir.com

"Or I will Moderator all your butts laugh do a little dance and eat a scone"
-Turrin barTurrin
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Eldrin THE BLACK

avatar

Posts : 276
Join date : 2008-11-12
Location : DreadHold

PostSubject: Re: Shared Knighthood   Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:52 pm

I agree with you Kairi, leaders are not always good fighters. But it seems that the term "Knight" implies martial prowess, nobility of action, and leadership abilities all rolled into one person.

I also agree with you about keeping it focused and simple for the time being. Make a Knighthood with martial requirements and requirements that make oneself prove nobility. Even getting something that simple off the ground isn't so simple. After having a little bit of an established membership and a few Knights, we might consider this more seriously. Until then we should focus on this.
Also, this is almost an extra curricular activity within our realms. Not everyone goes out for the chess team or plays basketball, it might be one of those things for now.

Of course, if some states some good, logical, specific points, I am pretty likely to change my mind, I'm not all that stubborn when presented with decent arguments. Generalizations don't go very far with me though. Feel free to add more input about non-marshal positions within an order of Knights. I will also do some research and see what I can dig up. But from the sound of it, this is turning into more of a household than a Knightly order. If an inter-realm household is what you guys want then that is fine too. If you want specifically and order of Knights, it is by definition exclusionary in that, only people who reallywant to be Knights(i.e. strive in every aspect 5x's as hard as the normal dag person) will make it very far within the order.

And yes, a household can have a Knightly Order within it as part of its structure but also has a lot more to it. Any was...discuss!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Eldrin THE BLACK

avatar

Posts : 276
Join date : 2008-11-12
Location : DreadHold

PostSubject: Re: Shared Knighthood   Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:53 pm

Yeah, that is pretty good Iohn! I'll also do some research on households and see what I can come up with.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Shared Knighthood   

Back to top Go down
 
Shared Knighthood
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 4Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Survey to know what the best books of opening shared ...
» Problems with shared stash :s
» question regarding shared stash and plugy
» [Problem with mod] Plugy problem with shared stash MedianXLultimative
» Shared Stash Organizer

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
 :: Town Square :: General Discussion-
Jump to: