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Angus
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PostSubject: Vocations   Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:00 pm

I believe we need to discuss and refine the vocation system. The vocations are all good as they stand, but the system by which a citizen advances from apprentice to journeyman, to master needs to be refined/agreed upon. If you agree, post in this topic. If you disagree, you should post too, and tell me why.

I will start off by submitting these options/ideas for discussion:
Herald:
Apprentice - must attend practice regularly, learn new battle scenarios, and help herald.
Journeyman - must have at least 50% attendance for one month, and herald at least 50% of practices that month, without repeating any scenario more than twice, in order to become a journeyman
Master - must be a journeyman, and must orchestrate and herald a practice of significant enough complexity that the practice could be considered a masterpiece.

Weaponsmith:
Apprentice - must have made a weapon that passes at practice and meets all rules in the manual-of-arms.
Journeyman - must lead a group of new members in making weapons, and have sufficient enough knowledge of weapon construction to teach each of the different weapon types.
Master - Must create a weapon that could be considered a masterpiece. (For the record, though it is cool, I would not consider a weapon like Lann-Morag to be masterpiece-worthy. Lann-Morag is pretty, but it consistently needs repair, and would fail at war in its current condition. I would expect something a level above that.) Alternatively, a journeyman could create a weapon tutorial that is informative enough and useful enough to be considered a masterpiece. (weapons created using this tutorial should hold up well to wear and tear, consistently pass at wars. It should be a tutorial so good that it is used by members of other realms, and across all of Dagorhir. Brother Nolen's Mace Page is a good example)
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Kairi Cypmann

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PostSubject: Re: Vocations   Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:34 am

I would love to see this done, but I currently feel like we have a lot more important things that need to be dealt with. This is one of those 'finer details' that need to be worked out once we really have our stuff together, and as of right now, we're still doing that.
In short, I'd like to spend our time working on other things right now and worry more about this a little later. @.x;

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PostSubject: Re: Vocations   Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:48 am

Agreed.
For anyone reading this, there's no need to sit down and spend a bunch of time trying to think of Ideas. If you happen to think of something, post it here, but if you have time to focus on Dag in your week, it would be better spent on Garb, foamsmithing, and especially on the boffer club constitution. The whole RSO thing is kind of hap-hazard right now. We REALLY NEED, and I cannot stress this enough, a team of people committed to making this happen. we have at least 3 or 4 people working independently on this, and we need to come together. there are multiple drafts floating around of the constitution, and none of them have gotten us very far. Summer simplified my original version, and I believe Ian made some edits as well. for the most part, it was much improved. It is still, however, not complete.In my humble opinion, it would benefit us to have a task force of sorts, willing to dedicate a short amount of time, on a regular basis to this effort.
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PostSubject: Re: Vocations   Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:43 pm

And I completely agree with that. Once we get ourselves recognized as a student organization here on the Rolla campus, we'll be able to reserve the Miner Rec Center like we originally intended. As of right now, we can't really do that. -.-;

The people willing to work on it should pick a day to meet with their drafts, discuss their ideas, and start submitting things. It might not make it through the first time, but it's better to put it in and see what they feel we did/didn't do right so we can adjust it instead of waiting around for months and months for a perfect first draft.

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PostSubject: Re: Vocations   Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:44 am

So...the first two posts made sense, and then....I got lost. But it seems to not have anything to really do with the rest of us..so...okay!

But yeah, I wouldn't worry TOO much about the vocation thing right now.
Though if you have a certain vocation it would be nice to be able to update the list in that part of the forum, so...anyone with a list of names and vocations should message it to me and I'll update that. *shrugs* or not. What-ev.

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Kairi Cypmann

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PostSubject: Re: Vocations   Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:25 pm

I currently have a partial list. I need to get everyone else to pick one still. I'll send you what I have, if you'd like. (though later, because I have to run to class now @.x)

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PostSubject: Re: Vocations   Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:40 pm

defenition of a "masterpiece" weapon please.....
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PostSubject: Re: Vocations   Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:37 am

that's why it's in the discussion board, not in the "policies" section. the definition of "masterpiece" is up for discussion. So is everything else.
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PostSubject: Re: Vocations   Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:18 am

if i may put my two cents in, i think it shouldn't be so much a master piece but one that is safe and durable, make one that has lasted a LONG time with very little repair needed on it, that way you know a masterfoamsmith has put time and effort into it, also i say this cause everyone has their preference, take my cleaver, not alot of people like dual pvc core, not do alot of people liek the handle the way it is, i made the weapon to the way i liked it not how someone else would. What one person may dislike another may love. just my two cents here, sry to interject.
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PostSubject: Re: Vocations   Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:23 am

I think a masterpiece should be visually pleasing, consistently passable, and durable. Also good balance. I dunno, it seems like a masterpiece should show a lot of time and effort as well as a lot of foamsmithing experience.
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PostSubject: Re: Vocations   Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:15 pm

I would suggest Masterpiece be described as a weapon that has consistantly passed inside and outside off the realm( never fialed in realm, and a minimum of 2 events.), Visually pleasing, and lasted more than a year with no repairs.
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Iohn deMar
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PostSubject: Re: Vocations   Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:45 pm

An example of a weapon that is extremely durable but not masterwork would be the bastard sword I made for Kairi. It has lasted almost 2 years now with no repair at all, and has passed at every event we've taken it to (the past 2 Gates and Wars, and Rag). But It's not visually pleasing at all.

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PostSubject: Re: Vocations   Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:48 pm

Iohn de Mar wrote:
An example of a weapon that is extremely durable but not masterwork would be the bastard sword I made for Kairi. It has lasted almost 2 years now with no repair at all, and has passed at every event we've taken it to (the past 2 Gates and Wars, and Rag). But It's not visually pleasing at all.

Good gravy. With all the use that thing has seen, I consider it a small miracle it isn't in pieces. @.@

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PostSubject: Re: Vocations   Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:01 pm

Perhaps you should include a provision for implementing foamsmithing techniques new to the realm. That way your weapon technology has an additional motivator for improvement. Not that what I say is relevant.
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PostSubject: Re: Vocations   Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:29 am

SolinuSvipdag wrote:
I think a masterpiece should be visually pleasing, consistently passable, and durable. Also good balance. I dunno, it seems like a masterpiece should show a lot of time and effort as well as a lot of foamsmithing experience.

Yes, that's pretty much exactly what I had in mind when I envisioned the concept of a "masterpiece"

Ultimately, I think it should fall upon the current master weaponsmiths to decide what does and does not constitute a "masterpiece" After all, that is where the term "masterpiece comes from.
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PostSubject: Re: Vocations   Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:08 am

So...you want someone's personal opinion to be the deciding factor?


just making sure, that's all.

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PostSubject: Re: Vocations   Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:14 am

I'm going to have to agree with Vala. 'Visually pleasing' is way too vague and left almost completely up to personal opinion. You need exact specifications of some sort.
Putting so many hours of work into a weapon, looking realistic as opposed to how 90% of Dag weapons look, having a cross guard, etc etc. Just set some actual physical specifications, and then add that the overall look should be 'visually pleasing' (or rather, well done), because if you do all of the above, it likely will be.

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PostSubject: Re: Vocations   Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:24 am

Yes, ultimately, we want some happy medium between exact specifications, and collective personal opinion. (meaning the combined opinion of All current Masters)
It really all comes down to wording. Which is, of course, why this topic needs to be discussed, so that eventually we will have a set of rules for each vocation that define the step-by-step process by which a person advances from apprentice to master.
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PostSubject: Re: Vocations   Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:10 pm

I think the quality of the weapon will be more important than its exact specs. Ex: A beautifully carved mace made out of blue foam and PVC as opposed to a speed bat composed of composite-EVA foam and kitespar core. The mace may look more pleasing, but wouldn't last more than 6 months of heavy use compared to the higher quality item. I am of the opinion that the only specifications that need to be met or exceeded are those in the MOA. From there, the quality and then ascetic value of the item would be considered. I feel like a masterwork weapon would be very subjective. Where a stick-jock might absolutely love a rather bland looking Edhellen weapon, a Narnian might value a latex-formed/EVA realistic looking weapon. And where many foamsmiths may be able to produce a high quality weapon with the right materials, it takes a master to create a piece of art.

We should never have to vote on what is and is not a masterwork weapon. It should be up to a guild of foamsmiths to decide on separately.

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PostSubject: Re: Vocations   Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:36 pm

hmm.. a guild...
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PostSubject: Re: Vocations   Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:26 pm

I agree with Iohn, a group of master foamsmiths should be the deciding factor. That way everyone gets a fair judgement and not some opinionated one.

Not only that but a weapon doesn't necessarily have to be aesthetically pleasing to be an excellent weapon. I think a weapon only needs to be well balanced, durable, and made well enough to pass at any and all events no matter who is judging.
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PostSubject: Re: Vocations   Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:43 pm

i'm just asking this cause i can, don't take it tooooo seriously but, if Bai Yi (My cleaver) were to last till war of this year without needing to be fixed would it count as a masterwork weapon, i mean it looks nice, it has past at war and everytime i take it to dom, the only thing different about it from war is it has a new cover( from panty hose to velvet) i was just wondering, sry to bother.

P.S. it doesn't hit to hard, i hit Krystal of dom who was checking the weapons myself and no i didn't hold back Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Vocations   Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:17 pm

1. how old is it.
2. I think it hits too hard.
3. You shouldn't be allowed to hit test your own weapons.
4. I think we should all vote on a few smiths to be judges of this, as in we all decide and vote on smiths based on weapons they've designed and the amount of experience they have. Then the judges decide what's a masterpiece and the citizens of Haven can veto the decision with a 2/3 majority.
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PostSubject: Re: Vocations   Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:10 pm

Tyr wrote:
i'm just asking this cause i can, don't take it tooooo seriously but, if Bai Yi (My cleaver) were to last till war of this year without needing to be fixed would it count as a masterwork weapon, i mean it looks nice, it has past at war and everytime i take it to dom, the only thing different about it from war is it has a new cover( from panty hose to velvet) i was just wondering, sry to bother.

P.S. it doesn't hit to hard, i hit Krystal of dom who was checking the weapons myself and no i didn't hold back Smile

No, because we don't have any real specifications on what a 'master' weapon is, anyway. Again, this is something that probably won't go into effect for a while. Maybe you should this question once we get that far.

I'd like to hear more about this guild concept.

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PostSubject: Re: Vocations   Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:10 pm

it was made less than a week before war, Svip your a panzy Razz(luv ya man) two i did hit her as hard as i could with the thing, i didn't check it i just hit her with it, and noone complained the whole time i was there, though i sword and boarded most the time. and i was just wondering, also maybe the look shouldn't be taken into account, i mean just cause you can make weapons doesn't mean you can sew..
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