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 DAP losing adhesive quality under duress and heat.

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Octavious

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PostSubject: DAP losing adhesive quality under duress and heat.   Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:36 am

Does anyone have any experience with DAP literally losing stickiness when exposed to direct sunlight or heat for extended periods of time (Say, three or four hours)? I noticed that after sitting near my window today, in sunlight, one of my blue swords seems to have half the foam peeled away. I understand it may just not have been glued properly, but this looked more like an outside factor had made the DAP incredibly hard. The foam has started curl off the PVC core as a result. Note that the weapon is not finished, and only has about three strips of foam in a width-wise box method. I've never heard of DAP melting, but the foam was slightly warm to the touch and the foam had mostly curled off. The DAP still had that dried shine it sometimes has. Any ideas?
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Octavious

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PostSubject: Re: DAP losing adhesive quality under duress and heat.   Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:38 am

Double post:

After more recent inspection, it looks as if the DAP has melted a bit. Not too terribly much, and it's hard to gauge how much versus how much I had on there to begin with.

I suppose this just means don't leave your swords near heaters, radiators, or sunlight. Then again, I've never had them melt in the sun at practice.
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Hatchet.

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PostSubject: Re: DAP losing adhesive quality under duress and heat.   Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:40 am

I've been experimenting with carpet tape, and it'll try and do this to me when I'm not paying it attention. My solution has been to wrap athletic tape around the foam to compress the adhesive until it can set. You don't need to mummify your weapon, just get enough tape down so that it stays put. You can remove it (the tape) without tearing the foam afterward as well.
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Octavious

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PostSubject: Re: DAP losing adhesive quality under duress and heat.   Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:35 am

Hey! Great idea. I'll most definitely give that a try sometime tomorrow. Thanks.
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Tyr

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PostSubject: Re: DAP losing adhesive quality under duress and heat.   Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:19 am

Wat i do is that i put tape down the flats, thus holding it together and giving a little more support.
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Orrin None-son

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PostSubject: Re: DAP losing adhesive quality under duress and heat.   Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:45 pm

The dap "burn" is caused by the dap having not set enough before connecting 2 peices. If it was humid when you dapped the things together, it will take longer for the Dap to get to the right consitency. I have had weapons left in the bed of Driabs truck for months in the summer(From Gates last year to october last year) and come away with no problems. Most are still in use right now with only cloth-tape repairs. meaning I only had to repair where the tape held covers on.

The only exemtion to this was an axe from my early days when I stupidly followed instructions from my previous realm, and hotglued my weapons together instead of dap. The hot glue melted all over the axe and destroyed it.


the moral, be aware of the humidity as well as heat when working on weapons... and NEVER USE HOTGLUE. friggen idiots those guys were.....
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Iohn deMar
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PostSubject: Re: DAP losing adhesive quality under duress and heat.   Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:47 pm

Just be sure to let the dap dry before you apply layers. Meaning, the dap should be dry to the touch (assuming you don't have dap on your fingers). This drying time should take around 3-7 minutes in a dry relatively warm environment. If humidity or extreme cold is present it will take longer. The heat shouldn't have many adverse effects on drying time if you're using Dap right.

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Octavious

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PostSubject: Re: DAP losing adhesive quality under duress and heat.   Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:22 pm

Haha. Alrighty. That sounds like a good plan. I did it inside, but we were in a basement when we dapped, so maybe it was a bit humid. I'll take that into consideration next time.

Hotglue..? Wow. Sad
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Crux

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PostSubject: Re: DAP losing adhesive quality under duress and heat.   Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:46 am

I'm also experimenting with carpet tape for shields, at least for foam to foam contact, and probably stick with DAP for foam to wood/fiberglass contact. Let me know how yours turns out.

In cold conditions like we have here, 10-15minutes gives the DAP time to dry a bit and lose it's shine and have a nice tacky feel to it.

The hot glue comment almost made me cry. I'd imagine it would just melt the foam when you applied it.
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PostSubject: Re: DAP losing adhesive quality under duress and heat.   Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:31 am

speaking of drying times, if you ever feel like using Environmentally Friendly, Non-Flammable DAP, it has a much longer drying time and so, unless you apply the layer 100% consistently (even coat) you'll get worse adhesion. Plus I think the stuff itself is just less sticky.
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Octavious

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PostSubject: Re: DAP losing adhesive quality under duress and heat.   Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:17 am

I'm using the DAP contact cement in a dorm room. (Don't worry, it's safe, we have ridiculously nice ventilation here. I only usually shut down for complaints about the smell) My biggest worry is that someone will strike a match near the can or something and light up everything. That would be bad. We use a fan to help the DAP dry. Great big fan that goes next to my workbench in the room. It works out pretty well, but it does get cold. Drying times are roughly 4-5 minutes on average even when it's cold.

@Crux, I'll let you know how the carpet tape works out once I get my hands on it.
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Hatchet.

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PostSubject: Re: DAP losing adhesive quality under duress and heat.   Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:03 am

The carpet tape holds spiral wraps together fairly well with cloth tape, but it seems to give out somewhat on layers or cores.
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PostSubject: Re: DAP losing adhesive quality under duress and heat.   Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:59 pm

I just finished facing my shield (3 layers of camp foam) first layer DAP'd, last 2 carpet tape. It seems like it'll hold just fine since with a shield the impact would just slam the foam back on the tape. I'm going to duct tape the corners, and maybe just run it length wise along the edges. I'm probably going to dap my edg padding on though just to be safe.
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PostSubject: Re: DAP losing adhesive quality under duress and heat.   Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:33 pm

ummm, if you're DAPing in a small, enclosed area you might want to use the Green Environmentally Friendly DAP after all. it works, it's just a little finicky, but there are no fumes, at least none that I or anyone who was around when I used it could detect. Also it doesn't emit flammable gasses, as far as I know, unlike regular DAP...
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Crux

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PostSubject: Re: DAP losing adhesive quality under duress and heat.   Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:41 pm

Where's the fun in that Smile
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PostSubject: Re: DAP losing adhesive quality under duress and heat.   Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:01 pm

Thanks Solinu, if it gets bad, I will most assuredly give that a try. I didn't know that the environmental kind did that, otherwise I might of purchased it earlier.
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Hatchet.

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PostSubject: Re: DAP losing adhesive quality under duress and heat.   Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:26 pm

I'd say the fun would be that your roommate won't evict you for the dap smell. Which is why I'm using carpet tape, and loctite powergrab tape, which holds much better (but it's expensive, like $7-8 for 5 feet). The spears I made held up for a practice with pretty heavy use, but the bond starts to get real shaky with cold. Let me know how the shield holds up after sitting around near freezing for a few hours.
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Octavious

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PostSubject: Re: DAP losing adhesive quality under duress and heat.   Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:29 pm

Hatchet. wrote:
I'd say the fun would be that your roommate won't evict you for the dap smell. Which is why I'm using carpet tape, and loctite powergrab tape, which holds much better (but it's expensive, like $7-8 for 5 feet). The spears I made held up for a practice with pretty heavy use, but the bond starts to get real shaky with cold. Let me know how the shield holds up after sitting around near freezing for a few hours.

Single room. And I only have one suitemate. I also managed to get onto the upperclass floors, a lot of the people are usually gone.

If you were referring to me about the freezing shield, I'd be happy to let you know my results. When I eventually make a shield, I'll let you know.
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PostSubject: Re: DAP losing adhesive quality under duress and heat.   Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:48 pm

You sir are lucky, perhaps too lucky. And it was more directed at crux, I wanted to see if he experienced the tape losing tack when it gets too cold.
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PostSubject: Re: DAP losing adhesive quality under duress and heat.   Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:01 am

It looks like I'm hitting the same problem you are hatchet, I'm gonna take the shield apart and make sure, and probably just DAP it back together.
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PostSubject: Re: DAP losing adhesive quality under duress and heat.   Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:55 am

In my nine years of Dagorhir, I've tried many methods, from spray-on adhesive to double faced carpet tape, and I really gotta say...DAP just holds better than anything I've ever tried. You've got to let it cure a bit, get tacky and all before sticking the pieces together, and then let it sit undisturbed for 24 hours, and it should be solid for a long while.

My favorite red sword lasted four years without a single rebuild (small repairs aside) built in this way. I rebuilt it with carpet tape and I guarantee it won't last until Gates.

Though...if you want a quick and dirty weapon that isn't -supposed- to last for a long time, carpet tape is king. It -will- last a good month or two, and that ain't bad in the grand scheme.
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PostSubject: Re: DAP losing adhesive quality under duress and heat.   Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:55 pm

If you want to use carpet tape, try using it in the summer it seems, or get the outdoor approved carpet tape to stand up to the cold. But from what I've seen, Dap is the best.
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