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 A red and maybe a javelin.

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Constantine

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PostSubject: A red and maybe a javelin.   Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:53 pm

I've got three rods of 3/8 in. fiberglass, each 4 ft. long. I was planning on using two of them for a dual-core red sword and Crux suggested using the third for a javelin. Does anyone have any specific pointers when it comes to dual-core fiberglass and/or javelins with fiberglass cores? I remember that the first javies that we had were made by Angus using single rods of fiberglass, but it seems like a lot of them are PVC. What are the benefits and disadvantages between fiberglass and PVC javelins, and what can I do to maximize the effectiveness of a fiberglass javelin?
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Tyr

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PostSubject: Re: A red and maybe a javelin.   Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:06 pm

actually constantine i have a min red made with dual core fiberglass, though i think i used 1/4" but it should be the same, line up the rods and us hockey tape to tap them up, then use liquid nails in between and and down the side, this is some things i picked up, me personally i just taped the rods together really really well then i just put the foam on it.
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Iohn deMar
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PostSubject: Re: A red and maybe a javelin.   Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:54 pm

For a min. length red, they should work pretty good. As for a javvie, just be sure to "penny" the tip otherwise something that thin will punch through foam like crazy. Should make a really nice javvie if you pay attention to the head. Good luck!

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Constantine

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PostSubject: Re: A red and maybe a javelin.   Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:00 pm

I'll keep the penny thing in mind. What would you recommend for foam on the shaft of the javelin?
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Tyr

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PostSubject: Re: A red and maybe a javelin.   Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:30 pm

pipe insulation, can be picked up at most hardwear stores, or if you ask nicely i'll get you some next time your in town.
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Crux

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PostSubject: Re: A red and maybe a javelin.   Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:49 am

Yeah, the penny is a good standard procedure for javs and arrows. I have plenty of pipe insulation you can have Constantine. We should work together on this cause I want to make a jav out of the rod that I bought as well. I might have enough computer packing foam to make a head, if not we could go in on a sheet of unifoam together, it'd be like 4.50 a person for the 1square food sheets of 4"
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Constantine

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PostSubject: Re: A red and maybe a javelin.   Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:03 am

Sweet. That would be awesome Crux.
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Svipdag

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PostSubject: Re: A red and maybe a javelin.   Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:29 am

DON'T USE PIPE INSULATION. Unless you're gonna sell the javvie to someone you don't really like. Pipe insulation is a very quick and very flimsy incidental padding. It'll break down very fast. It's easy to work with, but it isn't worth it, especially since it's pretty expensive. Check Iohn's post: http://gatesofhaven.forumotion.net/foamsmithing-armour-garb-f2/javvie-smithing-tips-t316.htm
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Constantine

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PostSubject: Re: A red and maybe a javelin.   Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:42 am

Thanks, Svipdag. I didn't see that post when I created this one, though this is for reds and/or javies. But I'll keep those things in mind. I remember Angus' first javies had pipe insulation and they didn't last more than a few practices. I'll just put some blue foam on it. Should be pretty simple.
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Crux

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PostSubject: Re: A red and maybe a javelin.   Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:31 am

I guess for javs i can see pipe insulation not working since they scrape a lot, however i have a glaive with insulation for it's courtesy padding and it's lasted a few years. Also, we have some javs here with pipe insulation that have been used for the last few months with no problems. Not meaning any disrespect by this post.
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Constantine

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PostSubject: Re: A red and maybe a javelin.   Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:47 am

Yeah, I'm sure it has at least something to do with the quality of the pipe insulation too. And the frequency and vigor with which the javelins are used.
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Crux

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PostSubject: Re: A red and maybe a javelin.   Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:00 am

yeah, I know EB's had his since last semester and the insulation is just fine.
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Tyr

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PostSubject: Re: A red and maybe a javelin.   Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:39 am

actually here is it kinda cheap i got like a 6ft peice for $1.50, and i'm goin to cover it with like cloth tape or somthign so it will last longer.
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Odin

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PostSubject: Re: A red and maybe a javelin.   Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:59 am

i have four weapons that have long shafts and i used pipe insulation on them all with no trouble. however i also wrapped them entirely in electrical tape. but i can see that an unwrapped pipe insulator could be torn up easily

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Kairi Cypmann

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PostSubject: Re: A red and maybe a javelin.   Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:34 am

Just to toss my opinion out there: I prefer javvies with pvc cores as opposed to fiberglass. The reason for this is my ability to handle the weapon well. Fiberglass javvies are too thin for me to really get a good grip on. My accuracy with a pvc one is a lot better, for sure.

Anyway. Just thought I'd share. It's a personal preference, but not exactly a bad one I don't think.

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Crux

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PostSubject: Re: A red and maybe a javelin.   Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:35 am

Yeah, mine get mummified in cloth tape which i'm sure helps.
Also for Kairi, i guess it'd depend on the size of the fiberglass. I'm impartial. I like both for various reasons.
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PostSubject: Re: A red and maybe a javelin.   Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:37 am

Would you mind sharing your reasons? I'd like to hear. Maybe you can change my mind. ^.^

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Crux

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PostSubject: Re: A red and maybe a javelin.   Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:47 am

With fiber glass, it's lighter so you have more options with what you want to put on it since you have more leway with weight issues and you can customize the grip easier, however you can also have problems with it being too light and flying off course, also it stays stiffer as it gets longer (hahaha).
With PVC, like you said it gives a naturally bigger grip and is stiffer nearer to the min lengths if you care about that, also the natural weight helps against the wind.
Also for some it's just the way they feel in their hands
This is all my opinion
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PostSubject: Re: A red and maybe a javelin.   Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:16 am

Constantine wrote:
... I remember Angus' first javies had pipe insulation and they didn't last more than a few practices....
Wait, what? the javvies I have here have never failed me, and they see quite a bit of use. Please elaborate, if there's something wrong with the design, I'd like to know before I make more. What exactly happened to them/how did they fail?

On the question of javv cores: fiberglass is good precisely because of the flex it has(javvs need to have some flex in order to fly straight, and hit gently) Fiberglass also helps to keep the javv lightweight, but that's not really an issue with PVC either, as long as you are careful not to use too much tape, and other materials
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Crux

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PostSubject: Re: A red and maybe a javelin.   Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:35 am

With the longer javs though, like 7ft, the fiberglass doesn't flex as much, as least it doesn't seem to. But regardless, both make good cores.
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Iohn deMar
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PostSubject: Re: A red and maybe a javelin.   Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:01 am

Pleeease don't make a 7' javvie. Please?
10' is almost done but it might not make weight

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PostSubject: Re: A red and maybe a javelin.   Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:21 am

@ pipe insulation: I've never seen a lasting weapon that used pipe insulation on a part of it that got hit. Maybe they exist, I dunno. I just know the insulation on the Javvies that Angus made for the Gladiator Day fell apart really quickly. Then again, they were uncovered, so maybe the cover would add some time, but I've only ever seen and heard that pipe insulation is inferior to blue foam for padding. I wouldn't use the stuff, but I think my first post was a bit strongly worded. The stuff isn't totally useless, I just can't think of a case where blue foam wouldn't work better.
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Constantine

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PostSubject: Re: A red and maybe a javelin.   Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:42 pm

@Angus: I was talking about the ones from last summer, in Blue Springs. You only made two or three of them, and by the end of the summer there were tears in the insulation and I'm pretty sure at least one of them had failed. You've probably made more since then, but I don't know which ones you use in Rolla.

@Iohn: I never planned on making a javelin longer than 4' or 5'. 7' would just be a spear, and I'd construct it as such and just refrain from throwing it, haha.
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Crux

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PostSubject: Re: A red and maybe a javelin.   Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:05 pm

Don't worry Iohn, I'd never make a 7ft. jav. i hate them. if it's 7ft plus it'll be a red/spear
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Constantine

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PostSubject: Re: A red and maybe a javelin.   Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:05 pm

My red is almost done! I'm hoping to have a cover for it by the end of tomorrow. I can't wait to wreak havoc with it Twisted Evil

Here are some specs:

35" blade + 12" handle + 3" pommel = 50" total length. [Almost no flex]

Blade dimensions: ~1.5" x 3.5"

To compare it to my other swords:

Isamu [sword Iohn made for me]
27" blade + 10.5" handle + 3.5" pommel = 40" total length [no flex]

Blade dimensions: 1.5" x ~2.5"

The first sword I made

30" blade + 9" handle + 3.5" pommel = 42.5" total length [absurd, failworthy flex]

Blade dimensions: ~2" x 3"


I don't have weight specs on any of them.

The mostly-finished sword:


I used a box method. I had already cut out all the strips before DAPing, so I didn't think to wrap the last layer over the top. I figured it wouldn't be a big deal, since it's not a green anyway.


The first layer of the pommel. I'm not very good with pommels.


The first cap of the pommel.


The second layer.


The second cap.


I think I skipped taking pictures of the last layer. This is just the finished pommel.


The sword laid next to my others for comparison.


Last edited by Constantine on Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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