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 Champion of Arms

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Iohn deMar
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PostSubject: Champion of Arms   Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:56 am

Was browsing the national boards and came up with an idea. How would people feel about a Champion of Arms rank that is separate from our normal ranking system to denote the BAMFS of the realm and make them into sort of an elite fightin unit?

Requirements would be citizenship and a rank of at least Man-of-Arms to attempt a Champion of Arms rank. There would be six types of Champions who would form Haven's elite unit. Blue fighter, Red fighter, sword and board, spearman, dual Blue fighter, and Archer. Each Champion "class" would have to undergo a rigorous set of challenges to become a Champion:

The Champion must duel and defeat an opponent of all other weapon classes of a proficient skill level. The duels must be held separately and only one duel may be attempted per practice (per week). A duel is three bouts, the winner of 2/3 of the bouts is declared the victor.

Example: A Blue fighter Champion would have to duel and defeat:another Blue fighter, a shieldman, a spearman, an archer, and a dual Blue fighter. They must also be proficient with all manner of Blue weapons and must use a/an sword, axe, flail, and club to defeat a Blue weapon fighter. All duels would be against any other fighter who is of a higher skill level (or simply one who is considered proficient with their weapon). That totals 9 duels and a minimum of two months and a week to gain the rank assuming they successfully win all duels and there is a practice once per week.

Of course the skill of the fighters would be very subjective. A good 12 yo spearfighter would not be the same as a 30 yo Rag veteran spearman. And these opponents could be anyone. As long as there could be two-three others who could vouch for the Champion that he/she had dueled a worthy opponent, these duels could be held at another realm's practice. Maybe Turrin wanted to duel Martus of DuS, as long as there were other who could vouch for him, that would be an excellent example of a worthy opponent. And at events, the duel limit would be adjusted to 6 duels per event, or something like that.

I think this might give people an incentive to not only get a cool title and have people say "Woah, you're a Haven Champion of Arms? Wow!", but also for them to better themselves as Dag fighters.

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Malfurion

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PostSubject: Re: Champion of Arms   Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:26 am

Cool idea. Would there be Champions for each province of Haven (Rolla, Blue springs, etc) or just for Haven as a whole?
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Tyr

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PostSubject: Re: Champion of Arms   Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:29 am

i want to point out that, though they might have that rank, it might not mean that much to another realm, but it is a nice idea, and you need to also realize that though they might be the best in that weapon set they might not like that weapon set best or they might not usually use that weapon set. also, what about the weapon sets, red/board, blue and green dual wielder, dual greens, dagger user,
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Crux

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PostSubject: Re: Champion of Arms   Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:36 am

In my opinion, and I know I'm no citizen, but something like this would carry more weight if it was for haven as a whole, incorporating more fighters. As far as the title carrying weight, it would be the same as being a knight of a realm, it's all in people point of view.
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PostSubject: Re: Champion of Arms   Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:58 am

I like the idea of dueling people from other realms. To become a Champion, you should seek out the best fighter(s) in the midwest (if not the whole of Dagorhir) in each weapon set, instead of just worthy opponents from within Haven. This would help the title carry more weight with other realms, especially since we're such a young group. If we really want our titles to carry weight outside of Haven, we need to be using the whole of Dagorhir as the standard against which we judge ourselves.
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Tyr

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PostSubject: Re: Champion of Arms   Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:18 pm

just as a side note, not that i really care but, it might be to not get to slap happy with titles, remember Alexander of alterra, and his like 10 titles.
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Kairi Cypmann

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PostSubject: Re: Champion of Arms   Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:57 pm

Uh, Tyr? These are combat-won titles. Not stuff people just grant to themselves or are given on a whim, but things that are being earned through a lot of effort.

I'm a bit confused with this idea, though. If it's just our realm, I would assume fighting only those in our realm. It sounds to me, though, like you're trying to get people to fight people in other realms-- which I like. However, if you say that someone has to be so many proficient fighters in other realms/our realm/whatever, how do you define the standard? For example: There's a big difference between fighting Martus and fighting Koltin. >.>;

I'm just kind of confused, I guess, so maybe people can explain that aspect to me better?

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Iohn deMar
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PostSubject: Re: Champion of Arms   Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:20 pm

The rank would be open to anyone in Haven who wanted to attempt it. Not just Champions of a province. That way we can get more "Champions". And while none of our ranks mean anything to another realm its this one in particular that will let others know that we are dedicated to being good fighters. This does beg the question of what advantage there is to being a knight, so maybe the difference needs to be clarified. Maybe a knight would have certain privileges over champions, ect.

And I have yet to see an effective blue/spear, spear/spear, or dagger fighter. Yes they exist, but it needs to be noted that the only exception is Gump of DuS who will rape the best fighters with only a dagger. Spear/spear combos fail. No offense. Its not a historical style in any way. And if you mean blue/spear as in blue/staff like the SCA does that would be considered a dual weapon style regardless, and so would classify as dual weapon. Red/shield is considered red.

Yeah, I understand that its very relative as far as skill level goes. If this sounds like something that should be included as a rank, we can work that out. I know other realms and units do things similar to this.

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Tyr

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PostSubject: Re: Champion of Arms   Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:06 pm

wat about blue javie(which i dual weilded a red and javie and killed like three peeps all in a row) and you want a dagger user, Igit nuff said, and wat about like dagger/javie/ or javie/javie.
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PostSubject: Re: Champion of Arms   Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:43 pm

how 'bout if you can complete the trials with one of those weapon sets, we make a spot for you in the unit? If you're good enough to best the best with a javvie and a dagger, I'd want you in the elite unit. Since it's such an uncommon weapon set, we wouldn't have a spot reserved for you, though.

Also, I love this idea.
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Tyr

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PostSubject: Re: Champion of Arms   Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:10 pm

also define proficient, cause if you mean can use and not uberly suck with then i'm prof with just about everything besides arching, i try to make it a goal to be able to use anything and everything in tangent with eachother, that way no matter wat i have i don't suck. lol, and i have only really used javie/dagger combo like once and that was AWSOME, luv that combo, lol once i make them i'll start usin it lol.
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Constantine

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PostSubject: Re: Champion of Arms   Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:11 pm

I'd say if we're seeking the best fighters in Dagorhir, it'll take a lot longer than a couple months. But it's a neat idea. I think a lot of people do stuff like this anyway without the titles, haha. Just to say they fought and won against specific people. One question I have is: what if somebody does all of it? Becomes a Champion with all kinds of blues, reds, spears, and arrows? Are people allowed to do that? If so, they'd either be an expert fighter or incredibly lucky.
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Tygreive

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PostSubject: Re: Champion of Arms   Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:50 pm

any of you watch Afro Samurai? THAT is how a champion should be decided!!
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Crux

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PostSubject: Re: Champion of Arms   Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:09 am

It seems the biggest problem here is who are fighters with "sufficient" skill to be challenged? Who decides that?
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Constantine

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PostSubject: Re: Champion of Arms   Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:03 am

I might suggest posting this idea on the Midwest and/or national boards. Maybe other people will get interested in it and start nominating experienced fighters for the challenges.
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Tyr

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PostSubject: Re: Champion of Arms   Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:39 am

leave it to me... *evil smile* i live on those boards, and am known on there as well, *grins*
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Odin

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PostSubject: Re: Champion of Arms   Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:55 am

Tygreive wrote:
any of you watch Afro Samurai? THAT is how a champion should be decided!!

Dude!! me and malfurion totally agree!!!

for those of you who don't know this system:

there are a set number of headbands, all numbered. the number one headband denotes the best fighter. and basically you battle for the headbands and only the number 2 can challenge the number 1. in the show anyone could show and challenge anyone, they just had to kill the head band holder. we could revamp it so that anyone could challenge the number 9-10 to a dual (2/3) not just a kill in a battle or something. THen only "banded" people can challenge any on from 2-8, but they can only skip up to one level. so the number 7 could only challenge the number 6 or 5.

in my opinion this system would really need to be each provice having their own set of head bands.

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Odin

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PostSubject: double post, srry   Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:07 am

Constantine wrote:
what if somebody does all of it? Becomes a Champion with all kinds of blues, reds, spears, and arrows? Are people allowed to do that? If so, they'd either be an expert fighter or incredibly lucky.

if anyone could master every weapon set and be champion then they deserve a permanent place of honor in the BA hall of fame.

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PostSubject: Re: Champion of Arms   Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:13 am

Odin wrote:

if anyone could master every weapon set and be champion then they deserve a permanent place of honor in the BA hall of fame.

anyone who could pull that off would be my all-time hero
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PostSubject: Re: Champion of Arms   Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:45 am

The numbered champion idea sounds awesome, and it would be a great way to show the level of proficiency one has with a weapon. There would be a lot of meaning in the title of number 1.
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Eldrin THE BLACK

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PostSubject: Re: Champion of Arms   Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:15 am

Dreadwood company's finest is willing to help with your tests. I have some really excellent fighters in my unit and an excellent archer. You need trials by combat, my guys need new fights to become better. Might be a good symbiosis.

However, what I am saying basically, is that DWC is humbly prepared to assist Haven in what ever way is feasible for the both of us.
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