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 WotIF VI after chat

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Tyr
Iohn deMar
Constantine
Barca
Logar
Orrin None-son
Kairi Cypmann
Odin
Angus
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Orrin None-son

Orrin None-son


Posts : 588
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Age : 42
Location : Ravenwood

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PostSubject: Re: WotIF VI after chat   WotIF VI after chat - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 22, 2009 9:04 pm

The reson you and Alterra ARE placed so far out, is to prevent drunks wandering in. And Dominion holds several clean up[ days before the event. Those are to allow people to further clear thier sites. Maybe you could get some of hte BS crew to go out nad do some work on those days. If I ever get the chance ot make it to a clean up day, I would gladly assist you guys.

Also, if you nad Alterra are such good firends, thier site is HUGE since it is in small field in back. Might be worth looking into.

I am all up for trying to hold a sober party at one of the camps. I am sure I can get all of the Springfield Fallen Clan to hang out and help. We got alot of musicians down here.
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Orrin None-son

Orrin None-son


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PostSubject: Re: WotIF VI after chat   WotIF VI after chat - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 22, 2009 9:08 pm

Also, I hate to double post, but htis deserves its own spot.

Mordor was not at fault. All Mordorian drinks come from the bar, and all drinkers at the bar are carded (except members of the poisoners guild). The drinks Relin got were from a visitor to the party. NOT mordor.
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Odin

Odin


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PostSubject: Re: WotIF VI after chat   WotIF VI after chat - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 22, 2009 9:35 pm

...i could have heard him wrong but i thought he said that he did have drinks from the mordorian bar, anyone else hear this? it was at the campfire while angus grilled sweet potatoes. but i have no doubt that the abstanth or however you spell it didn't come from the bar
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Kairi Cypmann

Kairi Cypmann


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PostSubject: Re: WotIF VI after chat   WotIF VI after chat - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 22, 2009 9:51 pm

I heard the same, Odin. And I also know that my own 14 year old brother was offered alcohol by random passers-by while he was wandering around at night. If I heard him right, this actually happened in the Sacred Grove; I don't know that he went into Mordor or not. Thankfully, he turned them down, or we could have had some more serious trouble.

Suffice to say that whether it's Mordorians specifically or not, it's definitely people who are bringing unwelcome things into their camp (and into the camps of others) and handing them out even if people don't approach the bars directly-- particularly, it seems, to those who are far below the legal age to drink. THAT is a serious problem.
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Constantine

Constantine


Posts : 425
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PostSubject: Re: WotIF VI after chat   WotIF VI after chat - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 22, 2009 10:02 pm

I envision some sort of location separate from the campsites that serves as the only place where alcohol consumption is allowed, it's only operational for a limited time, and you must be carded before entry. But with the layout of the area, it would be hard to create a secure enclosure. If it were possible, though, it would allow a place for those who can and do legally consume alcohol to have a few drinks while keeping away those who either can't or don't want to be near the alcohol. By keeping alcohol away from the camps, people can still visit camps in a friendly way without worrying about coming into contact with alcohol. I don't know how feasible it would be to do something like this though.
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Kairi Cypmann

Kairi Cypmann


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PostSubject: Re: WotIF VI after chat   WotIF VI after chat - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 22, 2009 10:33 pm

Regrettably, Constantine, I don't think that would ever, ever be possible. Not because it isn't doable, but because so many people who attend events (particularly Gates and War) seem to go mainly so that they can be very wild.
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Barca
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Barca


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PostSubject: Re: WotIF VI after chat   WotIF VI after chat - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 22, 2009 10:38 pm

Just wondering, is somebody making a letter or something to send to Dominion, or are we just discussing this right now? We should all sign whatever is created so they know how many people are upset about this. And I really am upset that they were offering alcohol to 14-year olds.
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Orrin None-son

Orrin None-son


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PostSubject: Re: WotIF VI after chat   WotIF VI after chat - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 23, 2009 12:13 am

I can tell you now, before they restrict the drinking, they'd restrict the camping age. There are WAY more drinkers than non.
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Iohn deMar
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Iohn deMar


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PostSubject: Re: WotIF VI after chat   WotIF VI after chat - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 23, 2009 12:58 am

What Orrin says is true.
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Angus
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PostSubject: Re: WotIF VI after chat   WotIF VI after chat - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 23, 2009 4:15 am

Well, I say more of us need to camp at gates this spring, rain or no rain. And we should have an epic Althavenwood party on Saturday night for the people who are underaged and/or don't feel like getting trashed.
I hung out with Alterra last Saturday, and their site would be great for a party, because of the big field right there. Plus, most of them were up pretty late, and I bet they'd make good hosts. Now, if only we could organize a titty contest...
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Iohn deMar
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Iohn deMar


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PostSubject: Re: WotIF VI after chat   WotIF VI after chat - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 23, 2009 5:25 am

LOLz. I would win hands down. king
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Constantine

Constantine


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PostSubject: Re: WotIF VI after chat   WotIF VI after chat - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 23, 2009 1:45 pm

Yeah, Iohn's milkshake brings all the boys to the yard, haha.

On that note:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXossOPWjcY

Nothing's better than a metal cover of a hip hop song.
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turrinbarturrin
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turrinbarturrin


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PostSubject: Re: WotIF VI after chat   WotIF VI after chat - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 23, 2009 3:45 pm

damn drunks Mad
I'm so pissed about this!! If this problem (which is criminal) is not dealt with me and mine shall not camp another dome event.
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Orrin None-son

Orrin None-son


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PostSubject: Re: WotIF VI after chat   WotIF VI after chat - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 23, 2009 9:59 pm

Riekoku is willing to put forward my propsal for markin dry camps. Also, he is going to talk to The council about a sacred grove-like site for dry parties....
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Tyr

Tyr


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PostSubject: Re: WotIF VI after chat   WotIF VI after chat - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Sep 24, 2009 6:37 pm

1) angus you make me lul, and idk i think angus might beat iohn,
2) i KNOW that Relin was in mordor, i saw him there, he was pantsless at the time but i don't think he was drinkin at the time i saw him ,
3) not all mordorians are bad about givin alcohol,
4) i would be in for a non-drinking party, sounds fun and the dry camps...
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kurai

kurai


Posts : 47
Join date : 2009-03-06

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PostSubject: Re: WotIF VI after chat   WotIF VI after chat - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Oct 10, 2009 2:08 am

A couple things here: As Orrin has said, Mordor was not the one who handed out the Alcohol to Rellin/ Macajah. The very fact that he was told it was for lightweights keeps it from being us. We do crazy stuff, that's why we are well aware of the need for discretion. We don't want people dying in our camp, so we don't just give alcohol out to anyone. Also, the presence of Absinthe guarantees that it was not one of our guys. I can think of no member of Mordor who enjoys Absinthe.
On a related note: Instead of talking about how horrible people, i.e. Mordor, are/is, just handing out alcohol indiscriminately, perhaps someone should have given the kid a run down of the camps. I'm quite sure that Mordor being a party camp is a well known fact, even among you guys. I make it a habit to tell each new guy I bring in about the various camps, and what to expect, as well as what to look out for.
I realize this is a little after the fact, but I figured since Mordor was the name being used most, it called for a member of Mordor to answer.

Now, on a fun note, I hear my gobbo friend Milenko had LOADS of fun fighting you guys all event and specifically in the Clan vs Haven battles. I know It was great seeing how visible Haven was, you had a very united front and it made me grin to see so much effort put into presented a strong green and red front to the rest of the midwest. Good job guys, and I hope to see you at Gates.
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Orrin None-son

Orrin None-son


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PostSubject: Re: WotIF VI after chat   WotIF VI after chat - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Oct 11, 2009 12:01 am

You think I let him wonder around with-out a coursery heaads up of hte land? I told him of mordor, the grove, hailing, the frequency of porta-pottys, where teh big mud holes were, and who to avoid....VVS. I look after people, ut I don't babysit.
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kurai

kurai


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PostSubject: Re: WotIF VI after chat   WotIF VI after chat - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Oct 11, 2009 2:31 am

Didn't mean you bro. Didn't know you knew the kid before that. If he was given a heads up then of course to him goes some of the responsibility. there's a bit going to him anyways, accepting the drinks. It's the severity of the amount that was on the others who would hopefully have been kind enough to have told him to stop. obviously, that wasn't the case. But this has all been discussed before, so yeah.
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Kairi Cypmann

Kairi Cypmann


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PostSubject: Re: WotIF VI after chat   WotIF VI after chat - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Oct 14, 2009 1:09 pm

As previously stated, I'm not blaming Mordor specifically. I'm blaming Mordor, yes, but I'm also blaming every other non-dry camp out there. My own little brother was offered alcohol in the Sacred Grove, not Mordor, so believe me when I say I have a bone to pick with individuals more than realms and camps.
However, I truly don't feel like people watch minors enough at events. I know a lot of people who got a hold of alcohol this past event who were definitely underage. People use the excuse, "Well, we card at the bar," but if someone asks a friend to go get them something, then that method of preventing minors from drinking (especially excessively) is more or less worthless; it's even more worthless when individuals are just handing random things out to people without telling them what it is or without asking their age. That being said, it's nearly impossible to keep people from giving alcohol to minors, and to keep minors from getting alcohol. That means there's a bit of something wrong with the mindset of Dagorhir as a whole, in my opinion, or at least to the majority of people who think that behavior is ok or not really their problem.

Dry camps is a great way to help keep intelligent people away from the wildness that takes place in wet camps, but it sadly still won't save a lot of curious or outright stupid people from having an experience they're legally not old enough to partake in.

If we seemed to be bashing Mordor or any group in particular, I apologize for making it seem that way. I'm angry at most everyone at an event, not just one realm. -.-;
I also really enjoyed fighting you after the Haven tournaments were going on, Kurai. I don't get to face off with other red fighters often, so that was a very fun learning experience for me. (:
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Constantine

Constantine


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PostSubject: Re: WotIF VI after chat   WotIF VI after chat - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Oct 14, 2009 1:18 pm

Kairi Cypmann wrote:
That means there's a bit of something wrong with the mindset of Dagorhir as a whole, in my opinion, or at least to the majority of people who think that behavior is ok or not really their problem.

I agree. The fact that these things happen gives Dagorhir a bad image. I can only imagine what people would think if the news came to do a story and coincidentally the police where there handing out various drug-, alcohol-, and public-indecency-related citations. Underage drinking, public nudity, and the smoking of weed may happen at events, and we may even expect them to happen, but they're still crimes. I don't want an entire organization to get a bad name just because some people can't show some restraint.

But I wasn't there, so I don't know the extent of the problem. I'm just making these statements based on my own few experiences and what others have said about theirs.
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Tyr

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PostSubject: Re: WotIF VI after chat   WotIF VI after chat - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Oct 14, 2009 2:26 pm

if i might say somthing, i don't think it has anything to do with dagorhir itself for the underage drinking, i think the only part that plays is that alot of people who do dag usually are in their teens yes, but most people at events and such are over the legal age. that being said, i also must say this doesn't just happen at dag events, drinking and such occurs at every get together of people in mass numbers, there really aren't alot of places you can go with the same amount of people in one area and not have some kinda party happen, i myself say am unbiased in this matter, i wont explain my reasoning but i see both sides. that aside i really think there should be dry camp parties as well
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kurai

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PostSubject: Re: WotIF VI after chat   WotIF VI after chat - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Oct 15, 2009 12:04 am

The thing that needs to be remember is that for most people, it's a courtesy to offer someone alcohol, since most people, specifically under aged ones, are going to be looking for a chance. If your brother was offered alcohol, it wasn't as something to mess with him, it was probably seen as being nice to him.

As for the friends of under age members helping to get alcohol, we can't police everyone, nor do we make an attempt to. If this is such a problem and you want to see something done about it, I suggest you start sacrificing some of your time and making sure that it doesn't happen. We aren't there to baby sit. If you go into a camp that has drinkers, you can usually expect to be offered something. If that offends you, stay out of those camps. Don't expect the entire setup of an event to change just because it offends you guys. if I go into a camp and someone offers me a drink, I can either accept or decline. I don't automatically have to drink it. But again, it's a courtesy.

People don't say what is in a drink unless asked because it's a pretty much unspoken rule in Dag, people like to keep mixes a secret. If you want to know what's in something, tell them you are allergic to some kind of alcohol or really can't stand it or something. People don't ask age because it's a, basically, don't ask don't tell thing.

tl;dr: Either police your own people, or stay out of drinking camps. It's not our responsibility to make sure your under age members stay sober.
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Kairi Cypmann

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PostSubject: Re: WotIF VI after chat   WotIF VI after chat - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Oct 15, 2009 3:46 pm

kurai wrote:
tl;dr: Either police your own people, or stay out of drinking camps. It's not our responsibility to make sure your under age members stay sober.

Um, that's kind of the whole point we're making. We want dry camps to avoid drinking ones. No one is willing to 'police and babysit' as you like to put it, and thus, we keep saying to stay away from camps like Mordor.
My point is that people should be watching things like underage drinking. The point is that the "don't ask, don't tell" policy is wrong, so you're just proving my point that the attitude of most people in Dagorhir isn't something I really want to be a part of at events. It gives all of us a bad image rather than just the few of us that deserve it, and I find that unfair-- and bad for recruiting new people to our sport.

You can say whatever you'd like about courtesy drinks being offered and whatnot, but my brother specifically told the guy who offered him something that he was only 14. The guy simply said, "So?" and my brother wisely walked off. THAT, sir, is very, very wrong for someone to have done, and I sadly feel like that same attitude is used by a majority of the people in charge of the alcohol at events.
The reason underage drinking is banned is because kids at that age do stupid things-- like not know when to stop, or what will affect them strongly, or when too much is enough to make you vomit, etc.

And in case you weren't aware, most of us DO babysit and watch our younger members and take time out of our own night to make sure they're being responsible, so I'd appreciate it if you didn't make it sound like we leave them to the dogs. The only reason things went bad with Micajaah is because he was there the day before the rest of Haven (minus one or two people) showed up. Believe me when I say we ALL feel responsible for having let that happen, because if we'd been there, that probably wouldn't have been the case. :\
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Constantine

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PostSubject: Re: WotIF VI after chat   WotIF VI after chat - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Oct 15, 2009 4:04 pm

kurai wrote:
People don't say what is in a drink unless asked because it's a pretty much unspoken rule in Dag, people like to keep mixes a secret..

Saying "Hey, this has alcohol in it" doesn't compromise the secrecy of the mixture. Nobody's going to make you list the ingredients and their respective amounts. I find this point invalid. It's the responsibility of the person receiving the offer to ask if the beverage has alcohol in it, AND, in the event that the person doesn't think to ask, it's the responsibility of the person offering the drink to indicate its alcoholic content. The policy shouldn't be "don't ask, don't tell," it should be "ask AND tell."

I don't have a problem with people offering alcohol as a courtesy. I think that's understandable. It just seems like people should pay attention to the people to whom they offer the alcohol and show some discretion if the people are obviously underage.

I'm not attacking a specific group or a specific individual. I'm attacking ignorance and carelessness. Offering alcohol to minors, withholding the alcoholic content of a beverage, and knowingly accepting an alcoholic beverage when underage are all wrong and irresponsible, no matter who does them.
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Odin

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PostSubject: Re: WotIF VI after chat   WotIF VI after chat - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Oct 15, 2009 5:47 pm

I tend to just assume that every drink offered is alcoholic, which tends to be true more often than not. Idk if the offerer should be required to say it, unless the person receiving it looks underage
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