Concerned dag parent

To all those who think giving liquor to minors is ok,and to those who think foul language and adult lewd behavior in front of minors is ok. I am a parent of dag people. I admire the history and martial spirit of the activity. Getting underage kids drunk and exposing them to lewd behavior and foul language is a reall good way to kill dagahir for those who love it. No reasonably decent person will allow their kids to become a part of that. Dagahir does not need illegal or indecent behavior to be good and fun. People of legal age may leave the activity and parents of minors may restrict or remove them from dag. A sense of martial art and honor should be a big part of dagahir. If you are of legal age and want to drink, fine--but be responsible. If you are in the habit of using bad language, at least care who may be hearing you, like minors and their parents. Anybody who condones illegal behavior and anybody who makes physical threats in print may find themselves in an indefensable position. There is a difference between being a warrior and a bully. Why not keep dagahir reasonably clean honorable and have good fighting and historical fun?

No one here is defending giving minors alcohol.
It's been said before, no one is defending that. It's not the fault of the event runners if the minors get drunk, it's the fault of the dumb kid who accepts the drink. We are NOT going to babysit your children.

Also, if your kids aren't mature enough to handle lewd behavior or foul language, then they really don't need to be coming to the events. Because it's going to happen and the adults who attend or anyone else for that matter, are not going to regulate the way they talk and act past a point, it's their chosen weekend to relax! I'm not gonna say fudge, or darn or anything else to keep myself from cussing in front of your kids!

And finally, the whole "physical threats" thing. It's a full contact game. If you believe someone is threatening you, in a full contact game with FOAM WEAPONS! If anyone has threatened anyone else, why not appreciate the fact that they now know who to avoid?

To DagDad: If this is a major concern for you, I would recommend saying something on the midwest dagorhir boards about it. Rest assured, the people of this realm (Haven) are generally in agreement with you. If you're concerned for your child, you are welcome to camp with Haven at the next event, we are a dry camp, and we try to keep things G or PG for the most part, since some of our members are high school age.

Honestly, anyone of age to play dagorhir probably swears anyway, maybe just not in front of their parents. Dag also, and correct me if I'm wrong, does not condone giving alcohol to minors, however not many people carry their ID's on them in garb so it's kind of hard to really check ID's at a camps party after a day of fighting. In my opinion if you are a parent of an underage fighter as far as alcohol is concerned, and you don't want your kid to drink, either trust them not to and leave it at that, or stay and watch your kid. Also, lewd language and gestures is totally period.

Also, the physical threats thing he is talking about is an out of game problem, involving fisticuffs, and is typically also not condoned by the game as a whole.

I ask YOU, an ADULT, Dagdad, only one question. Have you been to an event for the entire weekend?

I have never heard of an event that didn't have drinking and merry making in the night life. Such an event does not exist unless it is a very small local event. The parties and drinking are a big part of dagorhir events and there is no changing that. Despite this fact, Dagorhir is still a non-drinker-friendly experience. What it all comes down to is how much the dag parents TRUST their kids to not do anything illegal. I know in a lot of situations, such trust is hard gain between a parent and child, and not just in dagorhir events, but anything that involves partying and drinking. If you trust your kid that much and believe they can handle the dagorhir nightlife atmosphere without doing anything illegal, then you don't have anything to worry about whatsoever. But like I said, that sort of trust isn't exactly common between a parent and child.

Nobody is encouraging underaged drinking. If someone underage is drinking and ends up drunk off his or her ass then that was THAT individuals choice and THAT individual's RESPONSIBILITY.. NOT anyone else's.

It is always a good idea to have a group to stick around with that will help look after eachother. But when a kid goes away from his group on his own, gets shit-faced at the party camps, and ends up not enjoying the rest of the event due to a hangover then he is shit out of luck and will hopefully learn his lesson.

And one more thing I have to say for now is that dagorhir isn't for everybody. If people have a problem with the traditions of a regular dagorhir event then they should go and find something else to do.

I have spoke very little on this issue. I was angry at what happened at the last event and that is why I stopped talking about it. What happened could have been dealt with better by us to be sure. We need to learn from it and move on. I am sick petty fighting and complaining. Somewhere along the line people went from constructive critics to angry judges. Great ideas and willingness to help is how perceived/real problems will get better over time. I am not in favor of the current rule changes. In some ways they could help but overall people perceive them to cause greater problems for us. I think we did wrong here and need to take a step back. I LOVE TO FIGHT and I LOVE TO CAMP. I can understand dagdad’s want to see dag as a place that is respectable and honorable. But that will never be completely true its just the nature of game we play ( Its for everyone). On that note I hope it stays open for everyone lawful and evil alike. The only real way we will make events safer is on an individual basis. I wish seen this long before but I do now and plan on doing my share. For what its worth.
-Turrin

Yeah, mod me a cheezburgurz turrin...nao.

Cheez has been burgurzd mod or ated and made kid safe mother approved but I Im sick o doing it I dont care if your all rude and mean but sum people do so make ma job easier por favor.


MESSAGE KGB APPROVED VOTE CENSORSHIP VOTE NOWOW

ugh, modding fail...someone made you do this....and it wasn't much needed.

You tried I guess, so no problem. THAT is not everything I said..so you know...in fact...two pragraphs are gone. I feel like Klee Wyck right now.

Ashalind wrote:

When an ADULT goes away from his group on his own, gets shit-faced at the party camps, and ends up not enjoying the rest of the event due to a hangover then he is shit out of luck and will hopefully learn his lesson.

Fix'd.

When a KID gets so drunk that it ruins his/her weekend, it is the liability of the adults that provided the alcohol, and those adults risk facing felony charges. All opinions aside, this is simply the law.

The last time this happened, the person involved was 18, and learned his lesson. If he had been 15 or 16, it would have been a completely different story.

Idiocy.... Idiocy all around. None of you seem to be paying attention to anyone else, and you are all taking it up with the wrong people.

Angus wrote:

Ashalind wrote:

When an ADULT goes away from his group on his own, gets shit-faced at the party camps, and ends up not enjoying the rest of the event due to a hangover then he is shit out of luck and will hopefully learn his lesson.

Fix'd.

When a KID gets so drunk that it ruins his/her weekend, it is the liability of the adults that provided the alcohol, and those adults risk facing felony charges.

The last time this happened, the person involved was 18, and learned his lesson. If he had been 15 or 16, it would have been a completely different story.

Rage all you want about it, but Dag events are still part of the real world, and not above the law.

No, Dag is not for everyone. There are some people who come to the events because they think they can get away with things that they can't do at home, like underaged drinking, taking advantage of high school kids, and smoking weed.
Personally, I wouldn't mind kicking some of those people out.

Hence the sticking to their own group plan. If a kid wants to sneak off from his group and join the party where drinks are shared by most everybody, then don't you think the group should be there to advise him against it or at least accompany him to make sure he doesn't do something stupid? I was mostly referring to the incident at war with my statement, with the kid being 18 and all, but now that we are talking about it in general I think having people stick together is the best bet.
As a non-drinker, I understand all the fun that can be had outside the party camps. Camping in general is fun as hell. But I am a strong believer in the whole "let them do their thing and let us do our own thing" dealie. That is how it always has been. If people just take responsibility for themselves and their group members then there won't be anything to worry about. Groups can look after eachother a LOT easier than a single individual can look out for another single individual.

Personally I could care less about the enforcement on the underaged drinking rules at the event. That is something I can definitely understand. It was the whole requiring a parent to be there with a minor deal that has most of the uproaring crowd upset. I understand there are a number of parents that go to the events. I even met some and enjoyed conversations with some, but the amount of parents that were there because of their kid was extremely small. Most dagorhir kids have parents that frown on the game as a whole and see it as a pointless geeky activity. I don't know about any of you but I HIGHLY doubt that parents with views like that on the game would ever go to an event with their kid. A waiver signed by the parent AND notarized is plenty enough for a 16 or 17 year old to go to the event, especially when he or she is with a group of trusted friends.

Whether or not one thinks it's ok for a minor to go get drunk of their own free will, it's still illegal and those who provided are legally responsible, so it's their ass not the kids, and also it can start spreading a bad reputation around as Dag being the place to get drunk as a minor and start to attract a really unsavory crowd, even more than already

Orrin None-son wrote:

Idiocy.... Idiocy all around. None of you seem to be paying attention to anyone else, and you are all taking it up with the wrong people.

Please go to the mid-west boards links to the related topics are provided here
https://gatesofhaven.forumotion.net/upcoming-events-f7/gates-of-summer-7-and-the-major-changes-t583.htm

There is NO point in this topic being discussed here anymore. Your suggestions, concerns comments, and whatever else are better read there. Please redirect your posts there.
Please and thank you

(thank you Orrin)

In my opinion, we here on this board are arguing for the same thing from different sides.

Yes parents being required to go will hurt minor attendance big time
yes underage drinking is bad and illegal

(and thank you Orrin for those links to the main boards, and to turrin for the link to the links, lol)

I'm just kind of amused we haven't heard any more from dagdad.

Only been a day, give him time. Adults have jobs that don'y exactly give you hours to waste on the comp while working.

Lies! Everyone slacks off at work.

I never impleid otherwise, what kinda fool do you take me for?

The whole hours they can't waste at work thing threw me off

I can not waste hours on the computer at work. But I do have a bench grinder, a drill press, an anvil, some hammers, and alot of scrap metal. I use my lunch hours on the weekends to make knives. But, then again, we are told ot play around with the equipment nad familiarize ourselves wiht them on a regular basis. I have 4 artistic sculpture peices I am supposed ot make from scrap metal and what-ever else I find laying around. So, I guess I am slacking off by following orders...lol

I'm not concerned with the discussion on the midwest boards. My main concern is that somebody's father took the time to get on our forums to talk to us, and was immediately personally attacked. Dag is NOT just a bunch of teenage heathens acting like fools, but there are people outside of Dag who view us that way. They are wrong. But we will never change their minds by antagonizing them.

Turrin, Crux, Odin and I are from Haven. The other posters are from various places and don't necessarily represent the views of our realm, or the views of the Dagorhir community.

Where was he personally attacked?