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 Bringing back Haven ranks

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Iohn deMar
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PostSubject: Bringing back Haven ranks   Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:45 am

I believe we should bring back some form of realm ranking mostly as an incentive for members to become better fighters, and more importantly, better Dagorhirrim. But also as a way to unify our realm and to instill a sense of nationalism.

We did away with ranking before because the only way to rank was to be in Rolla. I would like to think that there is a way to reestablish ranking for our provinces, but realistically the provinces have been in a severe recession. The only semblance of a province left is in Blue Springs, and I have heard very little of how practices are there. With that said, if someone has ideas of how Blue Springs can be integrated into Rolla's ranking, please bring them here.

I have a few ideas from brainstorming with other Haveners and from looking into how other realms do their ranking, but I want to hear your ideas first.

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Odin

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PostSubject: Re: Bringing back Haven ranks   Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:24 am

A way to rank without having to be under a knight would be more of a skill/merit based ranking.

for example, to become level 1 (we can discuss titles later) you must have garp and a weapon

lvl 2: pass some skill test, such as iron man, the endurance test, etc
lvl 3: Attend an event, distinguish yourself in battle (set number of kills maybe?, or perhaps be recommended) and pass another skills test
lvl 4 .....these continue however far we want them, but the point is that the higher the level/rank the more events they have been too, the better garb they have, the better they are at fighting.

I also think for the higher levels we could encourage guild work. say you have to join a guild (such as the foamsmithing or seamstress ) and make a good weapon/garb piece.

When i imagine a person of high rank with this system, i think of a go-to guy(or girl). someone that can make very nice weapons, garb as well as show others how to make it. They are also a strong fighter and know all the rules of combat, weapon passing, etc (or at least the ones used regularly)

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Tyr

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PostSubject: Re: Bringing back Haven ranks   Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:47 am

though my opinion prolly doesnt mean much, but u should have seperate catagories, u cant be good at absolutly everything, also rank should also be decided on how good they are in teamwork and responsiblity, trust me i know about ranks and stuff really well....
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PostSubject: Re: Bringing back Haven ranks   Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:37 am

You can have individual park ranks, and then hold a tourney or something where theres enough from the diff parks to hold a realm ranking.
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Iohn deMar
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PostSubject: Re: Bringing back Haven ranks   Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:19 pm

After consulting the wisdom of the Main Boards (for what it is...) and Lady Kairi, it might be a better idea to incorporate ranks into units instead of the realm. Perhaps instead of trying to resurrect Haven ranks (which has proved a major problem in the past), we should focus on establishing the units.

Gate Guardians seems an excellent candidate for ranking. As is the Merc company. So with that thought, bring on the ideas.

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Odin

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PostSubject: Re: Bringing back Haven ranks   Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:29 pm

well as far as rolla goes, we need incentive to rank. most of our fighters just show up and borrow weapons, which is great that they come but there needs to be benefits to ranking in a unit. maybe things like an agreed discount off weapons or something like that, im not sure if we can make ppl want to join units (since we have not done well in the past) but we need to make it worth the while

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Iohn deMar
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PostSubject: Re: Bringing back Haven ranks   Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:02 pm

Maye one way to give people an incentive to first join a unit is by giving a new unit member a free belt flag or tabard. Something simple that lets everyone know that that person is now a part of that unit.

I'm going to guess that Angus' vision for Gate Guardians is one of ranks, honor, loyalty to the realm, ect. All of which falls into the mold we want our realm to fit. Why don't we first try helping Angus establish Gate Guardians by asking them to adopt a system of ranking that would be recognized by the realm.

In this way the realm is left uninvolved (which may be for the better) with any official ranking system, leaving the door open for other groups like evil units who would never want to rank as a "knight".

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Anndra Kenzie

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PostSubject: Re: Bringing back Haven ranks   Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:18 pm

I like the idea of ranking in units. I think it is good for Haven as a whole. But how do people like me and some of the other Haven members rank who don't live in an area that is near any Haven units? Also I like the idea of giving belt flags when people join a unit. like you said I think it is a simple and good incentive. & it also makes if feel more official.
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Odin

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PostSubject: Re: Bringing back Haven ranks   Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:34 pm

agree on the garb giving, and as far as others who are away from haven units goes, we could set up a outside ranking system where people could do skills test and count kills.

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Tyr

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PostSubject: Re: Bringing back Haven ranks   Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:33 am

how about i just vouch for peeps lol, and anndra im pretty sure orrin could get u a beltflag, and i could my whole speech on why u shouldnt need incentives to join a unit, but im an outsider without a home, lol wat do i know
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Odin

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PostSubject: Re: Bringing back Haven ranks   Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:18 am

Tyr wrote:
im an outsider without a home, lol wat do i know

NOTHING!!
lol jk


i see the incentive thing for units as a good tool to get people who like to boffer interested in joining Haven. i'd say only about half of our fighters are actually part of Haven, most just show up and fight and don't get involved anymore than that. The unit incentives would help encourage more people to get to know dagorhir a little bit better.

note that im talking about the people in rolla here, im not saying every unit should offer incentives. hopefully we can get the units going and ppl just want to join because they are awesome. lol

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PostSubject: Re: Bringing back Haven ranks   Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:46 am

I'm kinda iffy about ranks in Rolla, as I think we need to focus on becoming an RSO. If units are going to develop ranks and such, they first need to differentiate themselves from everyone. What I mean is that the units need to have drills, practices, etc. in order to develop the style/identity neccessary for people to want to work towards a rank. However, I don't think the units in Rolla have enough people for effective drills or practices, and thus, we need to work on recruitment. I think if we become an RSO by the end of the year, we could determine what Haven's units are going to be (or at least what we'll focus on) over the summer, and come up with whatever rules/policies neccessary for the management of the unit. Then, once the school year starts, the units could recruit, begin drills/practices, and implement a rank system.

Also, tabards, shield markings, etc. are good ideas for the time being
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Iohn deMar
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PostSubject: Re: Bringing back Haven ranks   Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:09 am

As much as I'd love to have Haveners from other provinces join the units, I don't see how it would work unless everyone showed up to an event.

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Kairi Cypmann

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PostSubject: Re: Bringing back Haven ranks   Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:34 pm

I'm pretty sure everyone knows how I feel about ranking by now, but for those who don't... *sigh*
I'm very anti ranking for the realm. I'm actually starting to get really angry every time I hear this topic come up, simply because all it does is cause problems amongst our members.

Rather than focusing on ranking and policy, etc., why don't we simply focus on recruiting and implementing units in practice? The best way to get people to join a unit is to make it seem like it's a fun place to be, and honestly, we're not doing anything like that at the moment. We need to start having battles with units vs. other units rather than just picking teams. If we do this, I'm pretty sure you'll start seeing people sign up for units more frequently, because no one likes to be the odd man out.
Next, people need to start wearing GOOD garb, not shitty stuff we've made out of old cut up t-shirts. The better our garb is (particularly if the Haven symbol is present somewhere) the more professional and organized we look, and that creates a greater sense of a "club" or organization people can join up with; after all, no one wants to be the one weird guy who isn't wearing cool clothes or who doesn't have a group he fights with. At the moment, we're kind of just a group of college kids who have foam weapons who congregate around the Puck and beat each other for a few hours.

In short, work on creating an identity before you start trying to make ranking systems and policy. The latter will just kind of start to fall into place if you take care of the rest first.

Lastly, for those who are members of Haven and don't live in Rolla, we can't really help you out. Ranking is something a UNIT does, not a realm, and as far as I'm aware the only people who are satellite Havener's speaking up in this thread are a part of the Fallen Clan. That means this is an issue you need to take up with Fallen Clan's leaders, not us. If you join a Haven unit, then obviously that's something that's going to fall under our jurisdiction, but Fallen Clan isn't a Haven thing so we really have no way of helping you out. :\

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PostSubject: Re: Bringing back Haven ranks   Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:32 pm

Yeah, I think it's best to leave ranking alone until we've got some more cohesion as a realm. Even if we made ranking unit-specific and not realm-wide, it still seems like the units need to beef themselves up first, from what I've heard. I might actually recommend waiting until after college to even begin thinking about ranking, because even if you start getting people interested and joining units in Rolla, won't those units end up splitting up once college is over? Or are most of the members from the same towns?
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PostSubject: Re: Bringing back Haven ranks   Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:10 am

Kairi Cypmann wrote:

no one likes to be the odd man out.
i do, i do, i'll take you all on lol, i like having my own team of only me, being as i'm in no unit or anything atm

Kairi Cypmann wrote:

Next,people need to start wearing GOOD garb, not shitty stuff we've made out of old cut up t-shirts. Tafter all, no one wants to be the one weird guy who isn't wearing cool clothes or who doesn't have a group he fights with.
uhh i'm at tech school with really limited space, your goin to get my old garb that i used to wear, besides i like my garb, simple is best in my opinion
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PostSubject: Re: Bringing back Haven ranks   Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:38 am

I'm with Tyr on the garb thing too. Good garb may cost time and/or money that people don't want - or sometimes have - to spend. Personally, I don't want to put a lot of time and money into something that's going to get dirty, muddy and probably torn at the first event I wear it to. A simple cut t-shirt or a tabard can work wonders if it's accented with the right things. Getting people into passable garb at all should come first, because that would still provide a sense of unity and it would show that garb can be made simply and cheaply, which I think would appeal to college kids a lot more than fancy garb would. But you guys may have already accomplished that in Rolla. I know here at Truman almost nobody wears garb. I tend to go with the bare minimum of requirements anyway though, because for me Dag is more about the physical movement than anything else. I'd be just as happy with a group of college kids who have foam weapons and congregate to beat each other for a few hours >_>
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Iohn deMar
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PostSubject: Re: Bringing back Haven ranks   Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:15 pm

Cheap garb does not necessarily mean bad garb. I can spend $3 and less than an hour of my time making a simple tabard that doesn't look like a cut up t-shirt and pajama pants. I know it may sound harsh, but I would not pass anything less than a tabard.

In my mind, absolute bare minimum garb consists of some kind of tabard, non-jean pants in an earth tone, and darker colored shoes. Anything less than that and it should fail as garb.

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PostSubject: Re: Bringing back Haven ranks   Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:12 pm

i have to agree that we need to drop the ranks for the time being and establish units. Next practice i think we need to spend some time and divide everyone up into three groups and those be the units. we will see who wants to join ian's pack, my merc unit, and the rest can start their own. i think three groups will keep things small enough so that fighters can really get to know each other and big enough to put up a good fight.

also i admit that i lean heavily towards the stick-jock side, which the exception of my massive and heavy shield, of course. my min garb was about $7 and that got me pants, and two tabards.

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PostSubject: Re: Bringing back Haven ranks   Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:08 pm

Iohn de Mar wrote:
In my mind, absolute bare minimum garb consists of some kind of tabard, non-jean pants in an earth tone, and darker colored shoes. Anything less than that and it should fail as garb.

I agree with this completely. Anything less than that should be classified as wearing comfy clothes that you're willing to get dirty, not garb. I also agree that good garb can be cheap; it all depends on the amount of time you're willing to put into it rather than money.

Constantine wrote:
Getting people into passable garb at all should come first, because that would still provide a sense of unity and it would show that garb can be made simply and cheaply, which I think would appeal to college kids a lot more than fancy garb would. But you guys may have already accomplished that in Rolla.

Anyone in Rolla who has been to an event has minimum garb (which is most of us), and as I previously stated that mostly consists of crappy cut-up t-shirts that I'm honestly surprised Dominion was willing to pass at their events. We can do much better than that for just as cheap. The problem back then was mainly time constraints, not just money. I'm fairly confident we could make some improvements for very little cost.

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PostSubject: Re: Bringing back Haven ranks   Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:46 pm

I think the earthtones is being a bit strict. It should be solid colors that could be period (no neons and such). Also, for unity, regardless of your personal garb, having matching, or close to matching tabards is quicker and easy. But garb in and of itself shouldn't be this important. It's good to have passable garb, and if you want to have awesome looking garb, even cooler, but it shouldn't keep you out of an event if you're in sweats and a cut up shirt.
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PostSubject: Re: Bringing back Haven ranks   Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:02 am

How Small did we get? I'll try to go back to coming in the fall, I was just dead after doing track in the mornings and evenings, pole vaulting is fun!
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PostSubject: Re: Bringing back Haven ranks   Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:30 pm

Most groups who do ranking, that I have dealt with, only allow ranking down at events. This prevents a new guy fom suddenly skyrocketting through the ranks, adn it brings your provvences togethere in one palce for them.
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PostSubject: Re: Bringing back Haven ranks   Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:13 am

to be honest, when i first joined my only reason for wanted to rank was so that when other people wanted to rank in the endurance or kill trials i could be high enough so that i could be an opponent and not have to just sit and watch lol.

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PostSubject: Re: Bringing back Haven ranks   Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:55 am

okay, so.

You gain levels by gaining experience points.

Every 2 months' worth of practices you attend, you gain 1 XP.
OR
every event you go to is worth 1 XP per day.
(whichever is higher)

For example, a 1-day event like Ludi is worth 1 XP.
an event like Gates or WotIF is worth 3 XP (4 XP if you go down thursdau night)

You begin at level 1, and gain one (1) level for every 5 XP you acquire.

Ragnarok is worth at least one whole level by itself. (Assuming you actually go, cough... IAN...Cough)

for example, I have attended:

~17 months of practices - 8 XP
WotIF V (1 day only, 1 XP)
Gates V - 3 XP
Shieldmeet - 1 XP
WotIF VI - 3 XP
Ludi - 1 XP
Dark Tides - 3 XP

so I have 12 XP, (Since 12 is higher than 8 )
which makes me:
Angus McCloud, Lvl. 3 Half-Orc Paladin.

It's just a way to tell how experienced you are relative to other people.

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