Underage B& ?!?

Okay, so this is a hot topic for many of us, and in my opinion, one worthy of discussion. The question is, how do we handle drinking (and other drug use) at events, especially in regard to people who are underage. For those concerned, rest assured Haven has a tradition as a dry camp, and we do not tolerate underage drinking and drug use. The issue at hand is the attitude and policies of the event as a whole. Those who are discussing this in the WotIF after chat thread, please redirect your conversations here, it would be appreciated.

We are already taking a huge step int eh right direction. Offering a dry camp sign, and a dry alternative party. From the sounds of the current line-up of entertainment, we will be putting on a hell of a show at Gates.... lets just say : Fire, music, fire, explosions, fire, and probably a bonfire..... did I meantion Poi shains, poi staffs, and hopefully a poi whip?

One suggestion I have, rather than "no I am _ _ yrs old." Respond with "I don't drink" That is much better recieved nad ussually gets you a drunken hug or handshake as respect. Been working for me at every event so far. The reason is, there are ALOT of under age drinkers, and many bring htier own alchy ot events. Your age does not matter to most, becasue most are doing it too. Not drinking is a rare thing at events everywhere, dag, concerts, raves, rallys, hell I have attended a church picnic with a keg at it.... It is a simple fact of life. A sad, pathetic fact, but a fact. Rest assured, if alchy is EVER forced on someone... it will never happen a second time. I will personally make sure the bodyis strung out betweent he creek, the field, the pond, and the cespool.... Don't step in the red puddles....

That is a good point about age not mattering because other underage people drink there. and this show sounds epic

I've had my share of alcohol before as I'm sure we all have. But its the attitudes people have towards it that is causing so much controversy. First and foremost, alcohol is to be expected at any event, whether that be Dagorhir related or not. But when we start hearing about underage campers not only drinking but getting drunk, excessive bawdiness displayed out of a campsite, and copious amounts of profanity, one has to wonder what the point of going to a Dagorhir event means anymore.

The first event I ever went to was a Tolkien Wars and I was 12. Even then people were drunk, rowdy, and profane. The difference is that now these sorts of behaviors are treated as commonplace and that they should be expected not just in a campsite. This past event was the first in a long line of events I've attended where the drinking and partying took preference over the actual fighting.

I think we all need to keep in mind that even though underage campers will find alcohol from a friend, and even though men and women will talk and act as bawdily as they do, that does not mean that those acts are not illegal simply because "its to be expected at a Dag event" or "everyone does it". Under the terms of contract for a Dagorhir chapter it states:
"Rights and Responsibilities:
1. Abide by all applicable federal, state, and local laws...."

This means that it is EVERYONE'S responsibility to look out for underage drinking not because they are morally opposed to it, but because it is ILLEGAL. The argument that underage drinking will occur and that it is okay holds absolutely no relevance. You can hate it or love it, it will still be illegal.

Is that how we want to present ourselves and represent Dagorhir? As a participants in a plethora of illegal and illicit activities? Think on it.

Well said, Iohn. I'm trying to be unbiased on this issue, because I'm pretty strongly opposed to alcohol in general for a variety of reasons, but I respect that other people enjoy it. I try to encourage responsible drinking, awareness of alcohol's effects and the reality of their severity, and disillusionment of the myths surrounding the use of alcohol. I can't hold it against people if they enjoy a drink now and then, but when they drink excessively and when they drink underage it's an entirely different matter. Such activities put the drinker at an unnecessary risk, one that I feel should outweigh any enjoyment gotten from drinking. But not everyone feels the same way, so I just grit my teeth and bear it, because there isn't much I can do.

I had a nice response typed up that never got posted due to internet crashage so I'll just say: If you don't like it, don't do it. Keep your friends from doing it. I keep those that i can see as obviously underage out of the bar. Nothing is going to change.

kurai wrote:

Nothing is going to change.

All things can and will change with time. This is no different; only more difficult.

Iohn's point about it being a part of our chapter contracts to follow all state and federal laws is something I find very relevant, and in short, I agree wholeheartedly with his entire post.

My actual issue is not with drinking itself. I begin to be upset by events anymore when I see people literally having sex on the side of a path; people using sex toys as part of a scenario on the field; people literally calling off battles early so everyone can go get drunk; people being so out of it they no longer know wtf is going on around them; people offering alcohol to minors who obvious were NOT intent on drinking in the first place and are clearly far, far below age.
I can keep this list going and going, believe me.

The real problem is the outrageous extent that once 'fun' behavior has now been taken to. There is no problem with people drinking and having some beers or mead or what have you, but there is a HUGE problem with half the behavior that goes on at an event now merely because it's so extreme-- and, as Iohn pointed out, it's not happening just in a camp but all over the event.

Orrin, I'm extremely excited to hear about what's going on as far as the dry alternative party. However, I feel silly for not knowing what poi stands for. -.-; Can you enlighten me?

IMO, the problem is with leadership. It's the responsibility of the older people to set a good example for the younger ones. And I'm not talking about my age, I'm talking about the leaders of realms, and the people who run events, the ones in their 30's and 40's. These people ought to know by now how to drink responsibly, and to keep people in line. If the younger people are going crazy and just doing whatever they want, it's because of a lack of leadership. They're afraid that if they ask the drunks to tone something down, even a little, that people won't like them anymore. So instead of taking charge, they just sit back and let things get out of hand. Orrin does a good job of keeping people in line, but he's only one guy. All it takes is some -slightly- more responsible drinkers in camps like mordor who are willing to say, "hey, maybe go back to your camp, or at least a tent, if you're gonna screw." or "Yeah, that kid is like 14, maybe take it easy on how much alcohol you give him" or "that guy looks like he's gonna vomit or die, let's get him back to his camp instead of handing him more booze"

A small amount of restraint goes a long way. It's important to remember that even though we're at an event, this is still real life, and there will be consequences for the really stupid things that we do.

Kurai does have a point about how it won't change. Yes, the partiers need to exercise a little more restraint, but there will always be drinking. There will always be underaged drinking. There will always be weed. There will always be public nudity, etc. This doesn't have to change. All we're looking for are small changes, and people being just slightly more responsible. This much can and will change. Or at least it had better. I believe if we impress upon the people in charge that too much anarchy makes people not want to go to their events, we will see some improvements. Actually, I am starting to see this happen already. The people of Mordor don't want to get more of a bad reputation than they deserve, and they are doing something about it. Mordor actually has some extra rules in place at their camp, specifically to prevent things from getting out of hand, and I respect that. I would not be surprised to find that the people causing problems weren't actually from Mordor. Of course, they are the party camp, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if they were from Mordor either.

Looking over it again, yes, that last power of mine was poorly worded.

My intent isn't to say that nothing can be changed, but rather to say that we already have changed quite a bit. Where we never used to card anyone we card at the bar now. We kicked people out of camp when they got too rowdy, too "friendly" or a couple that just plain out tried to screw behind our tents. It's a problem for us as much as it is for you. As for the use of a blow up doll in a scenario, all I can say is that if that offends your or you don't like it, chalk it up to a separate sense of humor.

The calling of battles early for the parties is something you need to take up with Dominion and the people in charge of the event. I don't know if anyone really paid that much attention to it, but this time around things were on a much more volunteer basis. If you wanted tournaments you had to volunteer to run them. If you wanted a specific battle, like the Thermopylae "Jim" Memorial battle, it has to be set up by volunteers. So if you want fighting to continue longer you're going to need to step up and be willing to herald or run some more battles.

As Angus said, Mordor has been taking steps to keep ourselves from garnering a worse reputation than we already have. As has been stated, we card at the bar, we keep the really young kids out of alcohol if we see it, and we escort people back to their camps and refuse them at the bar if they've had too much to drink. What happened to Rellin/Micaajah is something that is extremely regrettable and should never have happened in the first place. That goes for his being given the drink, as well as him accepting.

The thing that plays the biggest part in this is knowing when to say no. Either right off the bat and telling people that you don't drink, or knowing when you've had enough. If people have never had alcohol before and come to us to try it, just say that you've never tried it before and we'll start you off on small amounts of light stuff. That's our way.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that while we try and police our own unit and our camp, we can't see or be everywhere at once. So hopefully you can cut us some slack.

As for the other items, I'm all for marking either the wet or dry camps, especially since I'll be in charge of a dry camp at Gates. I want to see bigger numbers and plenty of fun for everyone, including those underage who are not going to drink.

P.S. As for that last bit of Angus' post, I will personally vouch for any Mordorian. We may be rowdy, but we stay in camp for that.

Again, and I'm kind of tired of repeating myself guys, I am NOT interested in Mordor. I'm talking about every person involved in Dagorhir, particularly the ones running events, because it is those people who are responsible for not allowing behavior to get out of hand (particularly on the paths or on the field). To be perfectly honest, I am most upset with Dominion, not Mordor or anyone else. I also don't want to argue the rule system set up in Mordor's camp, because whether it's there or not, I'm not super impressed by it at this point in time because I don't feel it's enough. Arguing isn't likely to change my mind, but actions are, so lets leave it at that.

That blow up doll on the field really bothered me. Not because I was upset by it myself, because that was kind of funny and I laughed about it most of the time. I was upset because there were a number of small children at that event, and my brother for one does not need to be seeing sex toys when he goes to play a boffer sport with his sister and everyone else. My parents would definitely NOT approve, and I think we tend to forget that while there are a lot of adults at an event, it's still a family sport where kids are going to be present some of the time.
It's stuff like this that I label unnecessary extreme behavior, and it's things like this that are the real problem.

I was struck by something when a lot of Haven got together to watch the Ragnarok video last night. They went to a lot of camps and parties, and despite that, I didn't see anything terribly crude on that video. I didn't see naked men and women, I didn't see slurring and vomiting drunks, and I didn't see sex toys. I heard a few funny and mildly crude jokes, but that was the worst it got. There was a LOT of alcohol in the video, but the behavior of the people drinking was totally acceptable. Whatever happened to events like that? I've never been to one, myself; every Dominion event I attend, even my very first almost three years ago, has had an obnoxious amount of extreme behavior. And sadly, I don't know how out of hand Ragnarok really got the year I went because I let Alterra talk me into doing nothing but staying in our tiny camp all week.
I think it would be a nice rule of thumb to say that if you wouldn't want it shown on a Dagorhir promotional video, you probably shouldn't be doing it in public. We all know exactly what kind of behavior I'm talking about, too, and I think most of us having this discussion are smart enough to follow that rule ourselves already. The trouble is setting that as a standard for everyone else at an event, especially ones like War and Gates.

What Kairi said. It's everyone's responsibility to set a higher standard. Now it's all well and good to talk amongst ourselves, but this is really something I think that needs to be brought up on the Midwest boards.

First of all, I'd like to say I'm incredibly sorry if people were unhappy with the way battles and War was run. What was more unfortunate is that a percentage of the people who were running the event actually had to leave on Saturday for a wedding.. and the number of folks willing to step up and volunteer in their place was non-existent. It's a lot harder to run an event with half your staff vanishing on you.

Dominion has done it's best to try and keep the atmosphere at our events both safe and enjoyable... but 4-6 people on Courtesy patrol canNOT police an entire event of 250+ people. That's literally one person patrolling around 60 people a piece. Courtesy patrol is supposed to be policing underage drinking (if they happen to catch it, I wasn't put on patrol so I can't say how that played out), escorting people into their camps/out of other camps, and doing as much as they can to ensure everyone's safety. Thankfully, many realms will employ their own to do the same for each other because we had very few people from other realms offering to help out with the very tedious job.

The blow-up doll on the field.. I don't know what to tell you there. Very rarely will anyone volunteer to play "Princess" because it's a tedious position and can lead to people getting yanked on and pulled around. I fail to see the issue when all of the 'naughty bits' were well covered and the doll was clothed. But that's a subject of morals and it's the first I've heard of the issue. -shrugs- Though I can personally GUARANTEE you that it's no worse than the happenings at Ragnarok. Regardless of what you may have seen on the DVD. I've been dry-humped by a girl in nothing but lingerie and a strap-on dildo... and seen guys fall into creeks while peeing because they're too drunk to stand straight. There are bad apples in EVERY group, and as the numbers grow so does the percentage of 'bad apples'. As someone on the national boards stated - 4% of 200 and 4% of 1500 is a huge difference, even if the percentages stay the same.

Now I'll give you that the general mindset of the events is heavily geared towards the gluttonous 'enjoyment' of the weekend... but I'm going to stand up and say personally I'm a little offended that you automatically assume that battle was called on Saturday so that those of us who spent the day running everything could "go get drunk". The person who offered to run battles on that day did NOT show up, did NOT have any replacements on hand and it was patched together from the efforts of the same unit who had agreed months before to be the ones running the official bar in the Sacred Grove. I apologize if you didn't get to fight as long as you'd have liked but like as not - nobody said battle couldn't continue. Those of us running though had other facets of the event to coordinate and if people would rather look at the slack and just ignore it and complain instead of picking it up.. then that's no fault of the people running things. The issue wasn't people being irresponsible or selfish.. but we had to get things set up, labeled, and organized before it got too dark (and not to mention give people a chance to eat and put that important substance on their stomach) to be checking ID bands and issuing out drinks. I have no idea why nobody else stepped up, my guess is that as it began to get later people were more interested in getting to camp to get their food eaten. I know the final battle was offered to be called since it was a stalemate for a long time.. but when the crowd spoke up the battle continued. After that.. it's up in the air. I don't know the exact 'time' battle was called, but I don't think it was too far from the normal 5-6pm that we call battle anyhow so that people can get back to camps and begin cooking dinner. Again.. sparring could go on all night long. Nobody ever forces anybody off of that field because the day is 'over'. But when you're running a 250+ person event with 20 people.. what more can you do?

If you have a suggestion as to how to avoid people behaving poorly - then I'm all for hearing it. It's just difficult to hear everyones complaints with zero input on how to correct the measure. I've heard little on the dry camp suggestion (I'm under the impression it'll be brought up at the Dominion council meeting next month) but there have always been dry camps. Even in the ones that offer alcohol - I have NEVER seen a camp out there that's refused to offer someone bread/crackers/water if they ask for something. I've even entered camps and been offered food or non-alcoholic beverages after I'd been drinking. If a camp doesn't offer someone who's clearly beyond 'drunk' and falling into the 'endangering their health' stage something to eat or drink (that's non-alcoholic) then that's an issue that should be taken up with individual camps. I can't promise hospitality or anything from anybody.. but if anyone approached someone in black and silver I could almost assure that something would be done. But again... crucifying us after the fact doesn't help us any because we can't say we didn't help if we're not told that there's a problem.

I'd like to thank Angus for bringing this to the attention of the Midwest boards, because frankly.. if we're going to continue to run events we NEED input like this. We've been practically begging for it for the last year or so and gotten NOTHING in reply. We can't correct problems we're unaware of. We also can't control and correct behavior of people that don't call Dominion home. The best we can do is kick them out of the event (and trust me - it's been done before). Of course, hearing two-four weeks later doesn't give us much to crucify someone with. I don't care how much someone from the Dominion nobility has had to drink... if something like this was brought to their attention AT the event? That farm would have been on lockdown in 20 minutes. Period. I'd honestly be willing to stake my life on that fact.

Iohn de Mar wrote:

Is that how we want to present ourselves and represent Dagorhir? As a participants in a plethora of illegal and illicit activities?

Good point. I personally don't mind it. Its no worse than real life. Though, this is the way Dag is, and it has been for years. This does not mean the entirety of Dagorhir as a whole, just a small part. If you can overlook the misgivings of ANY event, and ANY persons, then you can see that we have a really good thing going for us, for what we are. Anyone can nitpick and point out things that go wrong, but that's all i ever hear. Lady Krystal had a very good point, They love CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, but no one ever has a GOOD idea for how to fix anything.
And Kairi, Ragnarok is Amazing in it's own right, however, though things have been getting "better", Rag is THE place for all sorts of " illegal and illicit activities." whether or not you seen them, in video or whatever is exactly the point I'm trying to make: EVERY (camping) event is like Rag, Gates and War, You can't be everywhere at once, you can't see everything thus you can't stop anyone from being stupid. I don't find leadership to be the problem. Really its just experience, you can't stop a minor from drinking, if they want it bad enough. If they(the minor) can't rack up enough self control to say "no" then they should learn from experience. Like the morning after. Hangovers suck, if your one of the people who get them, ( i personally don't, and i don't drink outside of Dag events) and rub the horrid feeling in there face, and tell them how dumb of an idea it was to drink, especially underage. (catching them before-hand only increases the curiosity, and thus the will to do it, in my opinion) But that's all an opinionated statement. I just don't see the point in any of it, all the bickering about the little things. you might as well be trying to change the judicial system. GOOD LUCK! ;D

i have to say, the only reasons why some of the battles might have been bead or stuff might have been bad is due to the lack of imput before hand and lack of staffing/ volunteer work, i personally showed up to troll thursday like 3 hours early and help set some things up and even helped run troll a little bit, and i'm not dominion, if more people are willing to pitch in and do things then the whole shall benifet...

Lady Krystal wrote:

Now I'll give you that the general mindset of the events is heavily geared towards the gluttonous 'enjoyment' of the weekend... but I'm going to stand up and say personally I'm a little offended that you automatically assume that battle was called on Saturday so that those of us who spent the day running everything could "go get drunk".

I'm sorry if I've offended you, but I make that statement only because the person running the last battle who had the microphone in hand specifically said he was ending battles early because he and everyone else wanted to go party. I don't say that because I assume it, I say that because it was told to me and everyone else on the field-- quite loudly, too.
The only reason I'm really upset about this is that I pay an entrance fee to fight, not to drink. And I'm sure some of that money goes towards buying alcohol for the bar in the Sacred Grove. Since I won't be getting my money's worth out of that, it would at least have been nice to have a full day of fighting.
Haven was the only group of people still on the field until the sun set. We all had our own realm tournaments after battles ended since we never saw any other tournaments run (save for the assassin's tournament, which was run by our own Logar). I wouldn't just say we got upset and stomped off into the woods after battle was called; we did try and enjoy the field as much as possible, but it's a lot more fun to be fighting 20+ on 20+ instead of one on one. :\

I'm sorry to hear Dominion was so understaffed this event. I know Iohn helped herald at least half the battles, but none of us realized that you were all in such desperate need for help. If you'd announced the situation, I can say without a doubt that almost every member of Haven would have been willing to help out with whatever job you might give us.

As a solution to problems off the field: You need more people policing things, it would seem. I'm pretty sure Haven would be willing to help out with that as well, and I know for certain I would be willing to. This is something I feel very strongly about, and I'm not the type of person to just bitch and hope things change. I would like to help in any way I can; I know a few others in Haven who would for certain feel the same way.

In short, should Dominion ever need help with something, I think you guys should be a bit more direct about telling people how understaffed you are and what you need help with, because I know people are willing to help out as long as they know what to do. We can't help if we don't know.

I posted this on the midwest boards but I'll post it here too.

Before I do however, let me say thank you for volunteering. I think people underestimate how much work goes into running events and when you have 200+ people at the event you always need help. Please check the midwest boards as this where we post where we are needing help (as it was for War).

As far as battles are concerned we did not cut battles off any sooner the usual. Friday night we announced a night battle and no one came. Saturday they called battle because they did not have enough people to fight. We'll run you all ragged as long as there is enough people TO run ragged.

Anyway this is my post from the midwest boards.

"Wow that was certainly a lot to read. There were some good points in there.

-underage drinking-
I whole-heartily agree there is too much underage drinking. We do NOT support or encourage under-age drinking. We have the different colored bands and courtesy patrols that we try to catch it as we can. As you all have seen, we have a lot of land to cover and simply can not cover it all. We were very thankful when many peoples offered to help and can always need more help. We will definitely take volunteers, just find someone in silver and we can get you pointed in the right direction. Or if your group would be willing to RUN courtesy patrol that would be wonderful as well!

That being said, you can not expect anyone to baby sit these folks. I would imagine if these underage folks are part of your group you would watch over them. You can not blame Mordor, Dominion, or any other group for someones behavior. The group does not make the individual behave like "drunken idiots" they do it all by themselves. Threatening to not come out to any more events because some people partake too much that may not even be in the realm hosting the event is counter-productive. I have been to MANY events in the close to 7 years I have been in Dag. Its not specific to any one group or even Dagorhir.

Again we are open to suggestions and offers of help, but goodness people lets be productive in our discussions....

-battles-
It was stated on the Haven boards but I'll state again. The person that was going to run battles had some things unexpectedly pop up and could not do it. The people running the battles did not expect to run them and all things considering I have heard good things. We would love if you have input or would like to run battle(s) for Gates let us know!

Unfortunately we may have the mind set, in the past, to have Dominion people running things that way our lovely guests can enjoy themselves. But goodness these events are getting so big, we can't do that anymore. And this is what we ran into this time. The original person's expected circumstances were on short notice (they always seem to be) and the people that ran battles had already volunteered to run the bar. My husband is one of those people that ran those battles on Saturday. He ran battles until 5:30 when there was so few people to fight they were having difficulties getting battles started. I apologize that people find it offensive how battle was called but its no earlier then usual and in fact with the luck with weather we have it was a lot later then usual.

-the princess-
I don't see what was offensive about the doll. She had a duct tape bikini under a very respectable dress to cover up the naughty bits, a wig to cover her head, and duct tape over her mouth to make her even more presentable. You see more nudity with naked barbies then you did on that doll.

-dry camps-
This is a marvelous idea for those camps wanting to be dry. If you don't want booze in your camp, make a sign stating so. Or if you have a camp that would be willing to give water and crackers have a flag that will show it. Heck maybe even have a medic in camp, have flag showing it. My unit camp is definitely NOT dry (especially when it rains) and is off the main path but we have a medic and would not say no to someone needing help. (Gods know we have all been there done that ^.^)

Thank you again to everyone that volunteered to run the event. I had a pleasant time.

Thank you Angus for posting those links. Its always great to get input from people (even if I didn't agree with some it personally ^.^)

Lady Faraday
Lady of the Court for the Dominion of the Unconquered Sun
Shield Maiden Lieutenant of the Royal Guard, Myrkridian Infantry

ladyfarday@gmail.com

I agree, with Kairi about the staffing thing. I may not be the best herald but i would have been willing to be a res point, etc.

Though i must say, for as understaffed and you said you were, Lady Krystal, Dominion did a fine job of heralding and managing the field. I enjoyed the different types of battles like soccer that i hadn't played before.

Lady Faraday wrote:

-the princess-
I don't see what was offensive about the doll. She had a duct tape bikini under a very respectable dress to cover up the naughty bits, a wig to cover her head, and duct tape over her mouth to make her even more presentable. You see more nudity with naked barbies then you did on that doll.

To put it plain and simple: Sex toys have no business being on the field, especially where children (and, by the way, disgruntled parents; we had adults approaching US about how they didn't like what they were seeing, and I know one of those adults even talked to Lady Nyt about it) are going to be present. That's the sort of thing best left in a camp. I don't see why people continue to argue that playing on the field with sex toys is a good alternative to using a person. If someone had asked, I would have volunteered to be the princess. I didn't hear that option being given.

I would be very willing to help run courtesy patrol next event. If I can get enough members of Haven to agree to help out the same cause, I'm sure we can be quite a helpful force in that regard.

I'm also not sure what this talk about calling battles because there were too few people is about. When I was fighting and battles were called, there were still at least forty to fifty people on the field willing to fight. I would definitely call that plenty of people to keep things going. And I truly did hear the man with the microphone say that battles were being called so he and others could go get their drink on, not because there were too few people on the field. I think that's kind of a moot point to argue, since he said it into the microphone and I know everyone else heard that as well. :\

I'm really hoping that this dry camp party idea will be a good turnout. I wish all the wet camps the best and I honestly do not begrudge drinking at all. The thing I'm targeting is outlandish behavior on the field and on the paths (which hopefully we can help stop this coming event ourselves) and underage drinking.

I would also like to point out that I love Dominion events. I have no problem with how things are run during battles (excluding the princess battle) and how troll is dealt with and everything else you work hard to do; I always have fun, and always walk away happy that I came. However, as the events grow bigger, I notice more problems occurring-- or rather, problems that were once fairly small now seem to play a greater role. If the problem truly lies with just a lack of staff to help you do what it is you need to do to keep things running smoothly, than I am more than willing to attempt to help fix that problem.

Just to get a rough idea: Who in Haven who's kept up with these posts would be willing to help herald and/or police things next event? I may create a separate topic to actually discuss it in detail later on, but for now this is just a general head-count. I'll likely ask about this next practice as well for the members who don't frequent the forums.

I'd be up for heralding. And perhaps we could work in shifts to patrol the campsites.

Me too

I'm glad we have some people from Dominion joining in the conversation here. I was starting to feel guilty talking about them on our boards without them here to defend themselves.
To be honest, my hope in inviting you guys from the midwest boards was that we would temper our discussion to be more respectful, and thus, more productive. I feel like we're starting to get somewhere now. Of course we're all happy to volunteer to help run events. That ought to go without saying, and it's certainly not a Haven thing, every realm is willing to help out. I would say that most of the complaints on the Haven end are problems that come from the event getting too big for Dominion to run without help. This is a good thing, really, it means you're doing something right.

If I might make a suggestion, put out signup sheets at troll. Make a separate signup sheet for each type of work that needs to be done. (Troll, Weapons Check, Heralding, Courtesy Patrol, etc.) Put info on the sheet, like who to contact and when and where to meet. Have each person write down their name and realm.
You wouldn't have to hold them to it or anything, just the act of signing something is usually enough to commit someone to volunteer.
The issue that faces Dominion now is kind of what I was talking about in an earlier post. You can't run the event yourselves anymore, you've got to lead by example, and be able to delegate a lot of the work to other people. It can be a difficult transition, but it's the only way to make such a large event go smoothly. And I say this knowing full well that being the leader takes more effort and more work, and it's more to ask from a group that already works very hard to put these events together.

On the issue of ending the fighting early, I have another suggestion. Each realm has their own homemade scenarios that they like to run at their practices. I would like for there to be an hour or two toward the end of the day where each realm has the opportunity to teach us all a new scenario that we can take back home and use at practice. This could be around 4 or 5, when the fighting is starting to die down, and the attitude starts to get more casual.
For example, Haven steps up and explains a short scenario that someone in Haven has written recently, then we Herald that scenario (something quick), and then Ravenwood steps up and does the same thing.

I'm not sure about heralding or troll, but I do know there was in fact a Courtesy Patrol signup sheet at Troll. But anyone who's ever even been to Troll knows how big a cluster-fuck that winds up being, and most people (including myself) want to sign the waiver, pay the money, and GTFO from the chaos. It might be beneficial to place a separate sign-in off to the side for tournaments and the like.. but hindsight is always 20/20 unfortunately. I'd even be willing to make like, a huge easel to display some poster board with signup sheets tacked onto it and pens tied to the display so people can see and sign up at their leisure. (I'm hoping to coordinate troll at Gates, since I was HIGHLY disappointed in how it was run this year. Now I have a concept I can run with too )

We've started to branch out to delegate things to other realms, but unfortunately part of the problem at War was those that the projects were delegated TO failed to show up to the event. It's insta-fail like that that has caused more doubt that we can handle branching out to other realms. At least - in my eyes. It sounds silly but it's become one of those "If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself" situations.

November 8th is our next Dominion council meeting, in which a LOT of the fallout from War will be discussed as well as the initial planning for Gates 7. I know of two people who are already planning to offer to coordinate the event, and it will then be up to those two to further delegate the responsibilities such as running weapons check, troll, courtesy patrol, heralding, etc. As soon as that's done I KNOW that they'd be happy to take any volunteers they get. We may even post up information about Gates as it's discussed on the midwest boards from our meeting place.

The meetings are ALWAYS open for folks to attend, even other realms. If anyone is interested in attending or will be in the area - please PM me either here, on the Midwest forums, or on Facebook and I'll be glad to give you directions to where we'll be meeting to discuss this.

Lady Krystal wrote:

We've started to branch out to delegate things to other realms, but unfortunately part of the problem at War was those that the projects were delegated TO failed to show up to the event. It's insta-fail like that that has caused more doubt that we can handle branching out to other realms.

What if the responsibilities were given to inter-realm groups? For example, the group responsible for weapons check is made up of a few members from Dominion, Ravenwood, Haven, Alterra, etc., and the same goes for troll and patrolling. That way if a realm doesn't make it to an event, the other realms who are responsible can call on more of their members to take up the slack. Of course, this may be how it goes normally, in which case I'm out of suggestions and I'll have to think some more. I just thought I'd mention this.

Well usually that's what winds up happening. A committee will work on battle scenarios and if one person drops the ball there are others to pick up the slack. I have NO idea how the battles were supposed to run, but all I know is the person that was designated didn't make it and we had like 3 weeks notice >.< So battles got pulled outta the back end of Kaine - who was co-coordinating with Kultprit.

However what might be suggested to those who step up to coordinate the whole event is to ensure there is a fail-safe in place in the event that something falls through. I mean, emergencies and things ALWAYS come up.. I don't see why they couldn't have three people or so set for specifics and then have multiple resources to pull from.

Unfortunately for me, I was left in the dark on everything about the event planning for War intentionally - for fear I might start helping everyone And sure enough, the one tournament I ran wound up sending a dear friend of mine to the ER to get seven stitches..

How far in advance does the planning start? Has planning for Gates VII already started? I never thought much about all of the planning and coordination that goes into events until now. Since I don't have my own transportation, I don't attend events very often, but I plan to in the future, and I'd like to help as much as a can then.