A red and maybe a javelin.

damn math majors... :3

It looks like the whole box sword is just a matter of opinion to the weapons checker.

Go to any inter-realm event and try to get an un-trimmed box tip passed. A good weapons checker will fail it. Don't feel bad though, my swords failed on the same grounds before. It happen.

i thought svip just said they changed the rules

the point is that a corner of a box sword is sharper and can poke out an eye

The MoA states: "This measurement shall be conducted by lowering a testing template onto the tip of the weapon perpendicular to the edge or shaft of the weapon. The intent is to test the thrusting tip of the weapon, not to search for weapon head corners which can be manipulated to pass through the template."
But it's always ultimately up to the weapons checkers whether they want to be more strict than this or not, or what this line means. If you lower it down onto a corner and the corner of the sword pokes through as you rotate it around, that to me is still failing. It wouldn't be a violation of the MoA to pass a weapon with square tips, as far as I can tell, but if a checker calls it dangerous, it'll fail.

TL;DR yes, they changed the rules. That means some checkers might pass a weapon with square tips. But they don't.

If it's not illegal according to the MoA then and the checker just doesn't like square weapons, then that's BS and the weapon should pass, imo nothing is wrong with square tips.

Crux wrote:

If it's not illegal according to the MoA then and the checker just doesn't like square weapons, then that's BS and the weapon should pass, imo nothing is wrong with square tips.

Ever been poked in the eye by one? Or hit in the face and had the scare of the possibility of that having happened? It's not fun. I remember those days. :\
If I were checking weapons, I would pass them because I would personally feel they're not safe, not because 'I just don't like them'. That implies more of a dislike based on aesthetics rather than for safety reasons.

Yes, I have. I've fought against squared off weapons and it's never bothered me.

actually i took a sword to the eye today, and guess wat, rounded tip , bet if it was square it wouldn't have hit my eye but rather the socket. , and i have taken many swords to the face, most are rounded, but bye the rules square tips pass, yay, oh and you can ask orrin they do get used ...

Safety comes first in Dagorhir, Immediately followed by safety, and then safety. That's one of the things that sets us apart from many of the other groups out there. If one person thinks a weapon is unsafe, it gets taken off the field. Sometimes it's your weapon, even if it technically follows all the rules. Tough luck, that's the way this game works. The rules aren't perfect, and neither are the checkers. It's better to fail ten perfectly good weapons, than to pass one bad one. For better or worse, this is the philosophy Dagorhir has chosen to adopt. Before you complain about it though, remember that it is partly for this reason that Dag has been able to draw increasingly large numbers of new people.

Nobody is saying this game isn't safe, or that safety isn't the first rule, all I'm saying is square tips are just as safe as round ones. And i do agree with you Angus, I'd rather have failed good swords than passed bad ones, i've seen it happen, though I think all of the big boffer groups are just as safe and growing strong. Personally i think it's the simplicity of rules and more realistic combat that draws people.

i agree angus BUT, i don't really think the opinion of somond who is not on the feild nor has even seen the weapon should be allowed to fail the weapon because they have the opinion that it should fail, the rules allow it, it is actually use alot, it has gone unquestioned on the corners in two other realms, and since the weapons DO pass under the MOA then i have no real reason to round the edges, i will reblade it but i won't round it, i'm goin ot wait till it fails at another realm because it has square edges before i take the cover off and spend the like 3 min to round the edges.

Box top weapons ARE legal. Since the weapon is not a stabby, the top is NOT concidered a striking surface. Box tops are made all over Dag, and passed all over. I have seen them pass at Dominion, at last gates and last war both.

The bottum line is WC has the final word. if they fail it for the corners of the box...it fails for the corners of the box. If it passes, it passes.

The reason alot of box tops fail isn't for the angle of the box top, but how stiff the corners are. It is easy to make them to stiff.


All that being said, as I told Tyr the other day, I am not a fan of box tops and don't understand why they pass.

If I build a weapon with 2 90degree angles like this...

--
i i
i i

It passes, and is legal.

But, if I build it with 2 45's and a 90

^
/ \
I I
I I

It fails.

Same angle, but more usafe somehow?


As to why Kairi's may have failed at Dom, there are several WCers up there with axes to grind about box tops. Thier are several rules they they are pushy about, weather they are real rules or not.


They will fail any weapon with ANY foam showing. Pommel, handle, crossguard, anywhere.

Square arrows are the norm up there, but a square stabby on a spear, javvy, sword, or anything else is failed.

no rules for any of that.. but they will fail it anyways.

Dominion IS NOT the final word on rules in Dag. They just happen to currently run the big events for the area.


For a suggested modification to box blades, build your box sword as normal, but make the final layer a single peice up and over.

But, if Haven decideds box tops fail, then that is how it goes on your field. all visitors and citizens should honor that.

Okay, here's the deal. Box tops technically pass, but is it really that difficult to trim the corners at a 45? Just trimming a small portion off the corners will ensure that it passes at most every event you take it to (including Haven events).

Yeah, it wasn't that hard to fix. I'm worried about it failing for other reasons though. I think some parts of the blade may be less than 1.5" wide, and there isn't much I can do about it short of adding another layer, which I don't want to do.

so hows the javie coming?

i thought min. width was 1.25"

good good i have everything besides the core for it

According to the both the old and new MoA, Odin is right. The blade only has to be 1.25" x 3". For the time being, I won't worry about it and maybe I'll just print some of the MoA before I go to Gates so I can reference it if they say it fails on the grounds of blade width. I wouldn't want to start an argument, I'd just ask them to explain the reason for failing it.

And I haven't started the javelin yet. I don't even have any good open cell, and I've only got a couple days before I go back to Truman.

I was just thinking about the box tops vs. trimmed corners thing, and I saw Orrin's post about how a box top passed and a trimmed one failed, and I figured maybe it was because by trimming the corners, the tip of the sword passes too far through the hole used to test it. While this shouldn't matter if the tip of the sword isn't a striking surface and the sword won't be used to stab, it might affect how passable the weapon is based on the test suggested by the MoA. I don't think my sword will have this problem though, because even with trimmed corners it shouldn't pass more than 0.5" through a 2" hole.

On a different note, I think I may have to revoke my offer to let Kairi be the first to fight against the sword. I'm afraid it might fail for other reasons, so I want to use it before Gates in case it fails there and I won't be able to fight with it. Plus, I'm just very eager to use it, and Gates is still a month away.

I'll be happy to test it out for you this saturday. Hopefully I'll have my blue finished by then. You can also test it out against my new strap shield which I got to break in down in Rolla.

Sweet. I look forward to it. I've been itching to use it since I built it last week.