Gates of Summer 7 and the major changes.

So, it is that time of year, time to get out the info for hte next big event. Well, here it is, in all its changed glory. Keep in mind, it is now this way becasue you demanded it.

Quote :

Greetings Dagorhirrim! It's that time of year again here in the midwest.. time for us to tell YOU about Gates of Summer VII!

Why so soon? Well that's easy loves.. because not only is this going to be another 4-day event (much like War of the Iron Fist) but this is also to give YOU the opportunity to give YOUR input on the way Gates of Summer rolls out this coming May.

Our official dates? May 6th-9th, 2010 in our usual location in Holden, Missouri. (Never been there? Check out the Google Maps location by the lovely Soulsar! http://www.dagorhir.com/forums/index.php?topic=12116.0 )

Right now details are a tad sketch, because let's face it.. there's a good 6+ months between now and Gates, but there ARE a few things we DO know.

Event Fees: 15.00 for the entire 4 day weekend -if- you pre-reg! Pre-reg opens up in the beginning of January. Likewise, we'll still be charging the $20 for those paying on-site.

Minors in Attendance: We hate to do this, but our hands have been forced and we are now requesting that anyone under the age of 18 have a parent or a legal guardian on site. This also goes hand in hand with us politely letting everyone know that anyone between the ages of 18-20 who is caught drinking WILL be asked to leave, and if they have no one available in their camp to take them home; we will be forced to call their emergency contact. Likewise, anyone over the age of 21 caught giving a minor alcohol will be asked to leave the event. Dagorhir itself has a zero-tolerance policy and we WILL be enforcing these rules. Period.

Arrival Information: Since we're extending the event to include Thursday, arrival on Thursday is limited. We can't have anyone arriving before 5pm on Thursday, and there will also be an overnight cut-off. This is simply because we can't guarantee we'll have enough people on-hand to handle folks trickling in over night. After the Thursday night cutoff, Troll will re-open on Friday morning at 9am. I don't like to add the emphasis, but we absolutely, POSITIVELY cannot have people arriving before that time. Last event there was apparently some mis-communication somewhere and we had close to 20-30 people on site before Troll had not only opened, but even ARRIVED.

Weapons Check: Since Friday is going to be as chock full of battles as Saturday, we will be holding a weapons check from 9-11AM on both Friday AND Saturday morning. Much like "Rag Rules" - melee weapons/shields/armor checked on Friday will not have to be re-checked on Saturday. Missile weapons will still be checked every day. Please note: the RWC changes have -not- yet taken effect and will therefore -NOT- be enforced on arrows and javelins. However, please be aware that our weapons checking team will be placing a 'Warning' tag on your flight weapons that either are close to, or currently, failing the newest specifications. They will still be legal, but we are doing our best to circumvent potential problems in the future by letting everyone know if their stuff is borderline.

Also, anyone from neighboring realms who's interested in helping in any capacity, please feel free to contact me via the Midwest Boards, Facebook, or even shoot an e-mail or call me and we can discuss the details of the event. I still have need of people to host assorted tournaments, manage the 'heralding team', as well as taking any and all suggestions for battles on Friday and Saturday.

Ideally we're shooting for a 'Rag-style' two days of fighting, with two main 'scenario' battles and then assorted pick up battles carrying on from then on out. So what I need from YOU - are ideas for those pick up battles! Bring your best ideas to PM or e-mail (that way I have them in print!) and we'll do our best to get Gates of Summer kicked off in the best way possible.

As we get more information regarding things like clean up dates, potential day passes, and the like - I'll add those to the thread as well as keeping this first post updated so everyone sees the most current information. Anyone with any questions, feel free to post here or get in touch with me via another communication device and I'll be happy to answer any questions I have answers to.. or hunt down answers to the ones I don't.

~ ♥ Krystal

And here is the original thread, along wiht the arguements/discussions about the changes.

http://midwestdagorhir.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=events&action=display&thread=1445&page=1

Please leave that threat for ongoing information abut the event.

Here is a thread for discussing the pros and cons or agreements or disagreements of the changes.

http://midwestdagorhir.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=plaza&action=display&thread=1448&page=1

Oh wow. I am extremely excited about this. The entire paragraph about Minors in Attendance lifted a weight off my chest I didn't realize was there.
I'll be heading to the MidWest boards in the next couple of days to offer help and give thanks (LOTS of thanks) for the changes being made.

really O.o really......

Maybe you better not........ alot of people are not hapy about it.. myself included.

as you can tell, neither am i...

Kairi Cypmann wrote:

Oh wow. I am extremely excited about this. The entire paragraph about Minors in Attendance lifted a weight off my chest I didn't realize was there.
I'll be heading to the MidWest boards in the next couple of days to offer help and give thanks (LOTS of thanks) for the changes being made.

I know it's your opinion but that just makes my brain hurt. -_-' I guess instead of people taking care of their own members and keeping them out of trouble, we're just going to regulate everyone. We never had these kinds of problems a few years ago. I can't understand what happened.

Is there a way to reverse this? seriously me no likey. I've read up on the discussions and i agree with the option of changing the waiver. In a perfect world, yes parents of minors should go...but it just won't work. and i don't want to loose all the 16-18 players.

I agree with the no underage drinking or giving alcohol to minors, however I think it should be the parents choice if they trust their kid enough to stay and watch them. This forces the parents to use up their weekend on something they may not like to go do, but encourage their child with. Now they can't have a weekend alone without their youngsters.

yikes

Awesome. Fun just got destroyed for a bunch of kids. Great job guys, great job.

Besides having a parent required to attend, I am very, very for what is stated in that paragraph. After rereading that, I can agree that having a parent on site as a restriction is going to stop a lot of people from attending who deserve to (because honestly, not everyone has done something wrong), and a majority of Haven's minors actually do have parents who attend already, so it wasn't something I really considered. I read more quickly than I should have the first time through, and I haven't been back on here since. I've obviously missed a lot in that time.

However, I don't really feel bad about what's going on (other than the previously mentioned required parent). I stand firmly behind the stance that legal state and federal rules need to be observed, and at the very least, people need to keep their bawdy behavior in the own camps and keep underage kiddos from other camps out-- which does NOT happen anymore.

I'd like to point out, however, that in this thread in particular, people suddenly seem to be posting that they don't agree, "thanks a lot guys", etc, when you all were also upset in the first place (not all of you, but some of you). Tossing the heat on someone else is definitely what I'd call dishonorable and cowardly, and those of you doing it are losing a lot of respect in my eyes. I'm very disappointed in a few people in particular for trying to make it seem like you've had nothing to do with this when you all very much have. It's a little glimpse of who you all really are, and it isn't pretty. As much trouble as it's caused, least I can say that I stand by what I've done and will take responsibility for it. :\

Seeing as how continuing this discussion here is not going to do much good, I intend to move over to the MidWest boards now (once I finish reading through all the posts these changes have sparked, anyway).

Why do people keep assuming we're defending the underage drinking? WE. ARE. NOT! Get it through your heads! No one is defending underage drinking nor are we condoning it.
Why do you all continue to assume that that's our problem regardless of what we tell you? Yes, you've made them reexamine the rules and decide to enforce stricter punishment of law breaking, whoopee. But it's the fact that the amount of complaining, pissing and moaning generated by YOUR group that caused or very severely contributed to the changes.
People are not pleased because your actions have made it more difficult for their members to attend Gates. Stop feeling so self-righteous for ten seconds and understand that all we want is for the restrictions on our members removed and we could really care less about the drinking.

Despite what you may think, if you complain enough, yeah, you'll be heard, but there will be repercussions! And not always in your favor, as this proves.

Last note: Despite what you might think, this, "Dry camps is a great way to help keep intelligent people away from the wildness that takes place in wet camps, but it sadly still won't save a lot of curious or outright stupid people from having an experience they're legally not old enough to partake in." is quite rude, insulting and going to BEG for repercussions. So much for being the "intelligent" part of the dry camp scene.

Kairi Cypmann wrote:

1... I stand firmly behind the stance that legal state and federal rules need to be observed, and at the very least, people need to keep their bawdy behavior in the own camps and keep underage kiddos from other camps out-- which does NOT happen anymore.

Your stance was also beyond that and into the area of, "Your drinking and partying is unintelligent and you guys are all heathens." It was a offensive to a lot of people.

Likewise, we mostly have informal parties, I never really go to the Sacred grove party, we usually hang in Mordor. It would be so easy for someone to sneak in and grab some booze from people who are tipsy and drunk. And before you say people shouldn't get drunk....it is LEGAL.

Kairi Cypmann wrote:

2...I'd like to point out, however, that in this thread in particular, people suddenly seem to be posting that they don't agree, "thanks a lot guys", etc, when you all were also upset in the first place (not all of you, but some of you).

Some of the people admitted to me that they felt bad about being so offensive and changed their mind on what they said before about us "Heathens." Those people I am thankful for being sorry and hopefully they will learn to think before they run their mouth and insult many, many people.

You Kairi, are not more morally upright(and that is EXACTLY how you guys were acting) than anyone, but sadly, you are apparently to young to understand that.



I would also like to point out, I know for sure, all this has come about because of you guys...for a FACT. You need to learn to think before you speak or make your forums private, I know the Dreadwood Company forums are.

As leaders, you are far far more responsible for what you say then anyone else, and if you can't learn to think before you speak, you are going to get yourself in a lot of trouble.


My opinion is this, everyone in Haven that said some offensive BS about us party people, should go publicly apologize without saying soemthing like, "BUT you guys still weren't following the law." To lessen the extent that your pride takes a shot for also DOING SOMETHING WRONG THAT CAUSED A LOT OF PEOPLE A LOT OF STRESS.

I can pull out many, many examples from that thread that were offensive and destructive...when people say crap like that they should apologize.

I read your posts before and I was upset, but I thought it was just a bunch of ignorance and building yourselves up so y'all sound/feel important/better than someone else. But it got back to Kaine and Krystal and the rest of the Dominion council. So I am really not gonna be silent anymore when you guys say some stupid crap, I feel its my responsibility now to step in.

If you don't like that, you should ban me now and make your forums private. Because I'll make sure to point it out to EVERYONE if you guys start saying some stupid, dangerous BS ever again.


YOU WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR EVERYTHING YOU SAY IN PUBLIC FROM NOW ON, REMEMBER THAT.

i think there is a good point about the public forum thing. partly what some of the upsetting posts were rants, and i can tell you that in my case after the discussion several weeks ago, i forgot about all the points i had made, because in all honesty they were just that, rants that people needed to get out in some form. unfortunately i cannot retract what has been posted now, but I know that i had put all of it behind me and was looking forward to the next event before we heard about the rule changes.

so long story short, we might want to consider making these private.

I kinda Have a feeling she was refering to me. But I will point out, I felt there were issues, I saught to fix them by going ot a member of Dominion, and a member of the council, and telling my opinion, offered suggestions, and pushed for the changes I felt would help out. And becasue of that, I am now running two major portions of Gates, personally, with the help/guidance/watchful eye of Reikoku and Krystal.

I saw what I felt needed done, and I DID IT.

I notice id said in alot of places here, that many Haveners have offered to do Courtesy patrol at Gates. I am heading up courtesy patrol and have heard nothing about this. So until someone speaks to me on it and actually offers the help, it is all just empty words.


I have gotten the go ahead for a Dry party and a location for siad party. Not only that, but a certain amount of funding for non-alchy drinks. I have started recruiting entertainment. I have also heard you guys wanted to help out with this, but again. No-one has spoken to me about it.



I would much rather have 10 people telling me ehead of time they will help, and hten actually do so, then 30 say they will, and then not, or 30 show up AT the event looking to assist. The sooner I know who I will have, the better I can plan things. It is up to us to us to make sure that the Dry party takes off. If it flops, Dominion will not likely be interested in sinking money into it at future events.

To long?

I stepped up to try and fix what I saw wrong, but can't do it alone. Stop talking and start doing.

Feel free to PM, facebook, myspace, E-mail, or call to vollunteer.

Here is all my contact info


Facebook

Myspace

dawgchain2005@hotmail.com - E-mail

Some of you already have my phone number. I will not post it publicly. I get enough crank calls from local jerks and my wifes Ex-hubby.

Orrin, part of the reason we weren't "doing" anything was because you told us it was being handled and assured us that you would keep us well informed. This is the first I've heard about you being in charge of ANYTHING, and since we've posted several times on these boards that we have X number of people willing to help, so I'm surprised you never mentioned it prior to now. Please let me know what you need done or how many people you need working on what things and I will do my best to fill those positions with responsible individuals. I'm worried giving you exact numbers of how many people are willing to help at this point will hurt rather than help because so many people change their minds in the last month or two prior to the event (and many more choose to come at the last minute), so I'll do the best I can with who I can guarantee is going rather than just maybe going.

To Kurai, I would agree with you. We made a fuss about it and things were changed, which was what we wanted. However, we did not demand that the parent on site ruling take place, nor would we ever, because we understand that that effects everyone BUT ourselves and therefore is extremely unfair. I also don't think it's right to punish a lot of young kids who have never done anything wrong and would not anyway just because of a few idiot minors and a few idiot adults giving them things illegally.
I also fully realize most of you now are not supporting the illegal distribution of alcohol to minors, though previously that was not necessarily the case. I'm glad to hear that everyone now agrees that there are some serious legal repercussions that could come from continuing to do that down the road. It honestly was a pleasant surprise to me to read on the MidWest boards how many people support those particular changes.

To Eldrin, I'm sorry you're offended. I really don't like those parties, so I'm not sure why I should apologize. I don't think they're full of unintelligent heathens, but I do think they're full of people who like to have a bit too much fun at an event. That's also not my issue. My issue is that this 'fun' is spilling out onto the paths and onto the field more than it needs to, and for those of us who don't really want to be a part of that behavior, it's becoming hard to escape.

I'm honestly not sure how I feel about private forums, because I wouldn't say anything about people there that I wouldn't be willing to say here. I don't like the concept of having a place to bitch where those people can't defend themselves. But if that's what other people really want, we can definitely get that done, because it's not hard.

I think we all know just how bad private boards can get. As long as I'm admin, all our topics will be open.

Kairi Cypmann wrote:

To Eldrin, I'm sorry you're offended. I really don't like those parties, so I'm not sure why I should apologize. I don't think they're full of unintelligent heathens, but I do think they're full of people who like to have a bit too much fun at an event. That's also not my issue. My issue is that this 'fun' is spilling out onto the paths and onto the field more than it needs to, and for those of us who don't really want to be a part of that behavior, it's becoming hard to escape.

You see now, THAT is a polite way to state your opinion. However, you are dodging the whole intent of my message. You worded your opinion before, nothing like that.

If I called you an ignorant, close-minded, foolish, F*** but then later told you that's not what I REALLY meant, would you be offended still?

Keep your forum public, I don't care, but be careful what you say about people who thought they were your friends.

Our forums are only private because we do all our planning there and I didn't want other people chiming in and cluttering things up. But if we do need to talk openly together and say things we might later WANT to retract, we can. Sometimes being angry and venting is pretty good, feels good, and helps out. But how often do you do it in public? This is the same thing as that.

Once again, you have offended a lot of people with your PUBLIC venting, you should apologize. I don't know about anyone else, but I would then be all cool with you, and I imagine so would everyone else.

Public venting was never the intention. it was on our boards and thus i think we meant it to be private.
-cause let's face it, everyone has had some problem with some event that they were mad about, but after letting the matter cool they changed their minds or they changed their actions and things went on fine.

Now i know the road to Hell is paved with good intentions so i will just say that we should shift our mind sets from treating this forum as private to treating it like it is public...since it is lol

That is very true, everything you said there buddy. Like I said, if you really want to vent, or can't resist doing it, make a private section of your boards at least.

Or mark the post as such.

Orrin None-son wrote:

Or mark the post as such.

That still may not be the BEST thing to do. I could do some ranting that could really get a lot of people P'oed. Is it ok to do that if you are like, "oops, lol, this is a rant so no biggie, right everyone, but F*** you and F*** you and F*** you and your mom is a W**** and you have a small D*** and you are a slu*** bi*** and F*** you?" <<(Point made I think) I think not. You have to grow up and be prepared to take responsibility for what you say, especially in public and even if it is a rant.

To me, I AM taking responsibility for what I said and did by not apologizing and running from the backlash. I don't think I should apologize, mostly because I meant what I said. I never said that specific people were behaving poorly, though I definitely did say specific parties were becoming ridiculously rowdy-- and I meant that. It doesn't mean I think less of the people attending those parties or that I think they're uncultured heathens. What it means is that there is no denying that people who shouldn't be drinking there are being offered alcohol, and there's no denying that people who typically enjoy those parties are now moving onto the path and onto the field when they should --and deserve-- to have that kind of fun in their camps. That evidence speaks for itself when you have multiple people who are underage telling you that they were offered alcohol, and multiple people who are upset about behavior on the paths (mainly things like, I don't know, public nudity no one else either wants or needs to see).

The only people I will apologize to are the underage kids who are now receiving undue punishment by needing a parent on site. I seriously disagree with that ruling and hope that an easy way to assimilate it and still somehow allow kids to attend without needing a parent on site can be found, or that Dominion can revoke that ruling and possibly come up with something else. That was never what ANYONE in Haven wanted to see happen, particularly since it punishes everyone except our members, since most of our underage people already do have parents show up with them at the event since we're logistically close enough to do that-- not to mention that we only have two underage members anyway. In short, it's totally unfair.
I will also apologize for not bringing this directly to the MidWest forums sooner personally, since I simply assumed someone else was taking care of it since we were told they would handle it.

Kairi Cypmann wrote:

To me, I AM taking responsibility for what I said and did by not apologizing and running from the backlash. I don't think I should apologize, mostly because I meant what I said.

As you wish.


Also, I have never heard anyone say they were taking responsibility by, "Not apologizing." And fail.

G'night.

I don't think anyone is denying that underage people have been, and will probably always be offered alcohol at events, carding at camps isn't something typically done. Also, you shouldn't apologize to the underage kids necessarily, it's also their fault if they were underage drinkers. Also, to Kairi, I'm sure everyone respects your opinion on the parties people have at camps, and you not liking them is perfectly fine, however one persons opinion doesn't make them too much fun, or a bad thing, or anything like that. If anyone is of that opinion, they are free to not interact with such parties, and anyone who does is obviously of like mind, even those poor underage kids who were offered alcohol.

That being said, well done sticking to your guns Kairi, in all seriousness. As ineloquent as it may have been at points.