Gates of Summer VIII After chat

Just got back from Gates, and since we always do one of these.....
Mud Gates 2? imo no, needs more mud. but im ok with not having another one

We got (claimed?) our old campsite back! Kinda sad we didn't stay the second night, but it was nice to sleep in a bed sat night. I'm sad we missed the dry party tho

Sadness for grounding flight weapons, as a spear it was good for me, but i'm sad that others couldn't arch etc.

Weather turned out real nice, it always seems to rain, but get better for the fighting, so i guess that part is good.

anyhow carry on with after chatting.

Every year, the camping is miserable, and people want to go home early, or drive to KC and sleep on couches, or rent a hotel room.
I know the rain and cold are frequently cited as reasons, but are there any others?
Are the people who come with us just not that into camping?
Or is it perhaps that our campsite is so far from where we park, and so cramped?
Is it because we don't have the right gear?
Is it because of a lack of organization?

I've never been quite satisfied with our camping experiences at these events, and I don't think I'm alone. For our benefit in the future, I'd like to pin down what exactly the problem is.
How do other people feel?

Also, I, like most of us, got almost no sleep friday night, and was in a crappy mood, so if most of my comments seem whiny, it may just be because of that.

As usual, I don't camp at these events. Not because I don't like camping, but because it's always wet and cold, and since I'm lucky enough to have the option to drive home... well, I take it.
I don't think the walk back to camp would be so bad if it weren't so terribly muddy and hard to stay upright. I didn't even walk back to the camp area Saturday because I didn't want my shoes ruined. I've lost two pairs to that mud now; I've learned my lesson. ._.

My question to you all is more along the lines of battles. I was... not impressed, to put it as kindly as possible. I'm wondering how you all felt, since I was just a bystander this time and not actually out on the field.

I do want to say, though, that the tournaments were effing ridiculous. wtf was with flight weapons suddenly being allowed, and no real announcement being made about it?
Or any announcements the entire event, for that matter? I had a hell of a time figuring out what was going on all day, and I wasn't that far away from the field. Did you guys hear things I didn't, or what?

Disappointments:

Mud floor freaking EVERYWHERE!!!
Near freezing temperature at night
Rain
Few people seemed to be excited, so I felt a bit discouraged at times
Everybody was tired and ready to just go home
I heard flight weapons grounded with my own ears at the weapons check, but I did not hear them get the green light later. Plus I felt bad for those who didn't get to use them.

Kudos:

I felt like I gained some skill improvement because I consistently fought as well as I had started that day even when I was ready to collapse, though I still feel like I sucked. Otherwise, I had fun while fighting.
Sunburn on face + mud = fun
I got to use my red for a while
Feast was awesome
Saw garb that sparked personal ideas
I actually made it to my first event

That's the gist of it. I actually enjoyed most of the fighting, except the part where I died a lot. The battle against AOM was tons of fun because I got my first kill of the day before dying via spear. The castle battle was a bit difficult, and the black knight battle was just plain confusing. However, I would have a thing or two to say about some people's attitudes while the fighting was going on, but I don't feel like this is my place to judge, since I'm still kinda new to it all. I would have to say that in a nutshell: camping was miserable, fighting was awesome.

Because it's been reiterated i won't say it again.
Lots of beautiful chaos. Killed lots of peoples with spear and dagger. ^_^ YAY!! *dance dance dance*
Burnt my hakama a bit in the fire. *sad face* But I have enough of that cloth left over to make another, better pair so meh. ^_^
Field garb looked pretty good when I wasn't looking for kill shots. Love scale mail, so fricking beautiful. Our spear were the prettiest. >=D I did well in the tournies, I'm kinda confused though, did the red tourny ever happen?

I never saw the red tournament happen, and Iohn is sitting next to me and said he didn't see it either, Squall, so I really don't know.

Bad Stuff:
Heralds contradicting each other
the whole mess with flight
teams needed a way to designate one another, like the ribbons

Good stuff:
The battles were fun
definitely agree we need more unit battles at practice

Random stuff:
Haven wields big ass shields compared to others
The camping would be better if we were near the cars, I am used to leaving food and that packed up.
Mud Gates the second

I'll try to make this as nice as possible so here goes.

This was without a doubt one of the most disappointing events I have attended in the 9 years I have been playing Dagorhir. War Council last fall gave me some false hope that maybe things would improve in the midwest, but this event has proved otherwise. Please let it be known I am not blaming any one person or group, but I'm probably done attending these events.

-Poor attitudes on and off the field
-lousy battles
-no clear organization
-little to no communication, or announcements of activities

I'll still plan to stay active with our Rolla practices, and I may even start attending more cross-game events. As for Midwest Dagorhir, unless something changes (which I doubt) I say farewell. It will be the decision of our new leadership whether or not Haven/MS&T Boffer Club continues with midwest dagorhir, but I'll put my 2c in for looking elsewhere.

Odin's real thoughts

Whoa?! Seriously? abandon gates??

Listen I agree that the manner in which it was run was a bit lacking, but that is not their fault. The castle battle was done that way because they didn't have enough heralds to watch it otherwise. Should they have asked for volunteers? prolly. should we have volunteered? yes.

They tried some new things this year, like tourney's first. It didn't go quite as they though since people often enter multiple ones. But now we know

They did have markers, the problem was that not everyone wore them in the same place, so we didn't know where to look on a fighter for them.

But the worst thing is that we are being sticks in the mud. (pun? maybe idk).
I talked to several first timers and this was their common word: "Awesome."
We can't expect any of our new fighters to enjoy themselves long if we keep running it into the ground. As Jeiku said, he was discouraged by all the negativity. We go there to fight, and fight we did. And the fighting was good. The 3 forts was confusing, but the fighters pretty much all figured it out after a while.

in short. quit whining. If you want Haven to even have a slight chance of continuing we all need to stop focusing on the negative. I don't really want to hear anyone going off about how poorly run this event was or how it has been getting worse, or how bad everything else is at practice. That will just make the ppl who didn't go glad they didn't waste their time, instead of encourage them to make the next event.

-camping-

I would have gladly stayed sat night.
Mud was expected, so not too bad
we always had good fires and our spot is really not bad considering the other ones out there.
I agree with Angus that we need a plan. We need to plan out our campsite much more than we do. Also thanks for setting up tents those that did!

Yeah, I disagree. If the newbies had experienced a GREAT event, they wouldn't have said "awesome". You always say "awesome" to the first event you ever attend because you don't know better. However, those of us who have been to 8 or 9 events know better ones do exist.
I'm also offended that you would dare tell us to "quite whining" when we're expressing valid opinions. Nothing is ever going to improve by keeping quiet about it. Telling many of us --and it is many-- to basically shut up and take a back seat is unacceptable, so if you'd like to avoid conflict, I suggest a change of tone.

I'm not interested in bitching about this one so much as I'm interested in looking to take our patronage elsewhere. I know there are lots of other great events out there, both for Dagorhir alone and cross-game events for Dag and Belegarth together. I personally think it would be worth looking into to see how close those events are, how much they cost, when they happen during the year, etc., because as a veteran fighter I'm sick of wasting my money on what is --I'm sorry to say-- getting progressively worse rather than better. I guarantee you that if it continues to degenerate, the people who went to this one won't be saying "awesome" for very long, and then boffer club will have no where to go because literally no one will want to waste the money. I think we should start looking for alternatives NOW before we're gone and our new club leaders don't know where to look.

In short, I'm glad the newbies thought it was awesome. Their expectations have no where to go but up at this point, which is great. Now we just need to look for events that are actually worth the time and effort for the veteran fighters, too, since everyone I've talked to other than you, Odin, is extremely upset with how things went and they'd like to look for new options.

I also have the video footage I took at the event, which is about an hour long, as well as a lot of pictures and even some youtube videos I've found online. I'm hoping to get everyone together at some point to watch it, though I don't know how reasonable an idea that is this close to the end of the semester. Thoughts?

I'll concede my tone was a bit harsh, but I just don't want us to go tell everyone how much everything sucked etc. because it does bring people down, and they start looking for bad things in their experience. It seems that a lot of the issues are those that are mainly noticed by vets and not new fighters. If Haven wants to go look into new (closer?) events to attend I'm all for that. I just don't want to see this group close itself off to outside events, which nobody had suggested but still.

I've had some more thoughts about the event and I kinda think that Gates and War is very trust oriented. They trust us to only use passing weapons, to actually pay to fight, and such. That is my thought on why they didn't do a field check.

Flight announcement for 4 horsemen was unclear at best, but (and i feel bad for saying this) I kinda feel the only reason we are this upset about this is because we knew miles could've fought. (which sucked) So at least for me, I'm upset that he couldn't fight not necessarily at the heralds. OUr herald knew about it and seemed to think that missile weapons being cleared was common knowledge.

But setting aside the herald stuff I had a great time fighting, I was hoping for more complex battles, but I understand the limitations of a muddy field.

And perhaps since I've only been to gates and war, I don't have the experience pool that you, ian, and angus have.
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-video-
Yeah I would like to watch it sometime, but like you said...not much time. If i got a copy of it from you I could try to edit it and post the video on fb. for ppl to watch on their own

We could save it for a feast maybe? If we did I would want to edit it to mainly haven ppl.....and maybe add some bonuses XD

I have a program in which I can make great videos. In fact, I've already started on one yesterday. However, we'll have to see what footage we have before I can decide to continue making it.

As for the event-related stuff:

1. Ian, it's totally up to you, dude. I'm trying not to sound like I'm talking down to you, but if you feel like it's not worth going to Midwest Dag events, then do what you feel is right for you.

2. In case anybody is wondering--I hate to say it--but after reading the comments regarding first-time fighters...... I really don't know what to say or think about future events for myself. To be honest, i actually feel kinda foolish and stupid for ever mentioning that I enjoyed event; I honestly regret that now. But, it's my fault for reading them, after all, I'm no veteran, so I can't compare events.

3. For the sake of our club, let's just start coming up with alternatives to Gates and War so that we don't trap ourselves in something that potentially won't improve.

Please, guys, watching everybody argue over each other's reactions really hurts me.

Jeiku wrote:

-but after reading the comments regarding first-time fighters...... I really don't know what to say or think about future events for myself. To be honest, i actually feel kinda foolish and stupid for ever mentioning that I enjoyed event;

Hey man don't let stuff like this get you down. My first event was very similar to this, and I loved it. Kairi, as a bystander, got to watch a lot of the functioning and how it was run where I only stabby Mcstabbed stabbed. So our view are from two angles. But again, don't be afraid to tell any of us, "whatever guys, I loved it."

Okay. Anyway, let's just say that this event didn't go very well and start planning for different events at our next meeting? Seriously, that's about all we can do now.

idk if anyone cares for my opinion, but im a vet ive been to ALOT of events myself, ive even gone to an amtgard event, this past weekend in fact. An.im goin to be brutally honest, Kairi an Iohn, you deff sound like your whining, an Odins points are very valid, jeiku dont feel foolish for thinking the event was awsome, my first dag event was flood gates of war, it rained an.was muddy as hell, but I enjoyed it alot, some people just enjoy it better dry, some wet dont let others opinions influence your own. I drove.4 hours an paid money to figjt in hail at a fay event, an very much enjoyed it. Sure explore cross-game events but dont disown where you started.

Tldr: dont discourage others,.look into other fames an crossgames, an everyone play nice

I'm with Tyr on this. Also, several nice racks out on the field this Gates. But none were as nice as Mikkah's >=D

Seconded. I have looked at the rules for Belegarth as well as Dagorhhir, and for the most part, they are very similar, so cross-events between the two might be a good alternative to just dong Midwest Dagorhir events. Just my opinion. Anybody else with me on this?

Part of my frustration has to do with politics and organization, at the same time, my frustration has nothing to do with weather, ect. We've all earned our nasty weather camping merit badge, and the camping itself has nothing to do with my feelings of how these events have been run in the past couple of years.

My entire point is that veteran players running an event should have done better. If I find out in the future that the poor organization was unavoidable and due to factors independent of a group, then I will gladly re-assess my opinions of midwest dagorhir publicly. Until that happens, I stand firm behind what I said earlier.

I will also reiterate that what I do with my time and money does not effect what you do with yours. If the leadership and/or majority of boffer club chooses to continue attending these events I will do what I can to support that, but only locally here at practices.

Hows about we bring a CIVIL discussion to wednesday's meeting, so we can better understand each other's views.

Iohn deMar wrote:

Hows about we bring a CIVIL discussion to wednesday's meeting, so we can better understand each other's views.

Agreed.

how about we beat each other up w/ foam til one group admits their wrong?
-JUST KIDDING-
lol

@ Iohn, I think we should make time to talk about this, but we have other important manners as well, like new officer training etc to get to.

My summed up position:
Iohn, Kairi I agree with you on almost everything
BUT our opinions carry a TON of weight. I don't want our frustrations with the mechanics of this system to interfere with someone else's experience.

I think we should make it clear to Dominion, or who ever was running this, what our issues are with Gates. I think things were run weird, but once the fights started, the fighters figured it out and we fought, which is pretty much what it was about. More events would be awesome though, even if they are not Dag

This event was run inter-realm I believe, and since we are not exactly on the best of terms w/ Dominion I think we should work it out amongst ourselves before we decide on making any kind of public statement.

Iohn deMar wrote:

since we are not exactly on the best of terms w/ Dominion I think we should work it out amongst ourselves before we decide on making any kind of public statement.

Yes. we don't need another "what happened at war"

I live with trolls